Puzzling Symptoms

[kribensis12]

Anyone?

Is there another possible issue beyond worms? If it is worms - is there a second medication that I should be trying?

 

[Colin_T]

What does the fish's poop look like?

Intestinal worms don't cause fish to stop eating or lose weight quickly. Fish with intestinal worms usually eat more and lose weight over a period of months.

It could have an internal protozoan infection, which will cause rapid weight loss, lack of appetite, death within 1-2 weeks. Metronidazole is used to treat internal protozoan infections.

A bacterial or viral infection in the mouth, head of digestive tract can cause it too. Salt (1-2 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres) can sometimes help with this.

 

[kribensis12]

What does the fish's poop look like?

Intestinal worms don't cause fish to stop eating or lose weight quickly. Fish with intestinal worms usually eat more and lose weight over a period of months.

It could have an internal protozoan infection, which will cause rapid weight loss, lack of appetite, death within 1-2 weeks. Metronidazole is used to treat internal protozoan infections.

A bacterial or viral infection in the mouth, head of digestive tract can cause it too. Salt (1-2 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres) can sometimes help with this.

I have seen very little poop because she has not eaten in almost 2 weeks. What I have seen is not white, which is what I would expect for worms. I have noticed this morning that her stomach is now a tiny bit shrunken (since she is not eating).

I'll see if I have metro available in the area. It used to be hard to find around here. Any other recommendations for internal protozoan infections? I'll look into doing aquarium salt too.

 

[kribensis12]

So, local search came up dry but I'm attempting to treat two different ways:

1. Aquarium Salt. I am following their standard dosing of 1 tbsp per 5 gallons, so a total of 2 tbsp. @Colin_T you recommended 1-2 tbsp per 20L and 10g is 37L - assuming it's safe to up it to a total of 3.5 tbsp instead of 2? If so - how long is safe at that exposure?

2. LFS don't have a lot in stock, so I picked this up: https://www.googleadservices.com/pa...j7stfJ-bTzAhWKXM0KHXxRBJgQ9aACegQIARBG&adurl=

Reviews seem decent but I am wary as it's not typical medication. The treatment regiment is for 3 days and if it does not work, I intend to return it (LFS has 60 day satisfaction guarantee). They don't carry any traditional medication and their rep recommended this - and being that I don't truly know what's wrong I figured it was better than doing nothing.

Thoughts?

 

[itiwhetu]

Only use one treatment at a time and only treat for something that you know your fish have. It is not a good idea to treat for things that you are unsure of.

 

[kribensis12]

Only use one treatment at a time and only treat for something that you know your fish have. It is not a good idea to treat for things that you are unsure of.

I'm not using any chemicals - the treatment I linked is a blend of essential oils that are effective (supposedly) at treating. I am not mixing chemicals, which could lead to adverse or unintended reactions. I am not opposed to using chemicals, but nothing was available. I don't see how using both aquarium salt and essentials oils in conjunction would be negative.

I've been trying to ascertain (which you can see on this thread) what is wrong with the fish. It is not a clear cut answer. Are you recommending that because it's not obvious what is wrong, that I should do nothing?

 

[Colin_T]

1. Aquarium Salt. I am following their standard dosing of 1 tbsp per 5 gallons, so a total of 2 tbsp. @Colin_T you recommended 1-2 tbsp per 20L and 10g is 37L - assuming it's safe to up it to a total of 3.5 tbsp instead of 2? If so - how long is safe at that exposure?

You can keep salt in the tank for up to one month but if there is no improvement after one week, then stop using it because it isn't helping.

2. LFS don't have a lot in stock, so I picked this up: https/www.googleadservices.com/pa...j7stfJ-bTzAhWKXM0KHXxRBJgQ9aACegQIARBG&adurl=

no idea, never used it.

you can try it if you like, it might help.

 

[kribensis12]

You can keep salt in the tank for up to one month but if there is no improvement after one week, then stop using it because it isn't helping.


no idea, never used it.

you can try it if you like, it might help.

Well, either my hopes are too high and I'm delusional (because that's never happened....) I would say there is a slight improvement.

Since she has been sick, when it was feeding time she might come to the food but looks at it as if she is blind - no interest at all.

Today at feeding she zoomed over and was tracking the food (following it with her eyes/head) and though she missed, attempted to take a peck at a sinking pellet. I did see her do a poor job of trying to pick 1 or 2 pellets off the substrate after they have fallen.

My hope is that this treatment (whichever one) is working and that she is beginning to just barely feel like herself again and get some food in her!

 

[kribensis12]

So bizarre. I've never seen a fish try to eat and not be able to - as in, she swims up to it and it'll literally fall on her head, but she doesn't react.

She is not as thin as she appeared before, so I suspect she's pecking at food in the gravel (I've seen her peck around the bottom after I feed) but otherwise her condition does not seem to be improved at all.

I have no clue what could be causing this.

 

[kribensis12]

UPDATE:

Today I saw her EAT food. That is really promising. BUT....

As mentioned last Tuesday - something is not quite right. I can upload a video if it's helpful, but she seems to struggle to track her food. She takes a lot of "bites" in its general direction until she can actually eat snag it.

Is it possible that she could be partially blind from the illness? She seems to get around the tank just fine, but when it comes to food she seems to have a very hard time finding it.

I'm afraid to remove her from quarantine and place her with the other Rams at this point - possibly ever. I think that they would kill her.

Any thoughts on this? Has anyone had a situation like this where a none-eye disease could cause partial blindness?

 

[Colin_T]

videos and pictures?

the fish could be blind or just have bad eye sight when looking at things up close.

 

[kribensis12]

videos and pictures?

the fish could be blind or just have bad eye sight when looking at things up close.

Well, I think we are OK.

Prior to getting sick, she had perfect eye sight.

As of last night, she is much more capable of finding and eating the food provided. I'm not sure if she just "forgot" how to eat (similarly to people with brain injuries) or if her eyesight was temporarily degraded by whatever she had.

She does not appear sick anymore and is eating, so I'm happy! I'll keep her in quarantine for a few weeks to fatten her back up before I introduce her into the other rams. They'd kill her if I added her now.

 

[kribensis12]

Sad Update:

While she is still alive, I believe that whatever disease she had has caused a permanent disability.

She does not track her food well but is eating again. She has 0 aggression which is unusual, even for a female ram.

I have placed her in my tank with about 60 Apistogramma Cacatouides juveniles (1 inch) and she is doing very well - she feels more comfortable because there are so many and that makes her feel safe. She is getting enough food. I did try to transition her into my ram grow-out tank again and she was almost killed within 12 hours so it seems that this point, she is going to have to live her life without the company of other rams.