Putting A Tank Inside A Wall

[Miles_hot]

I would advise against brick because most of the time (in Canadian houses) it is used as a veneer, and it actually does not support anything in the house (there is a 1 inch air space between any brick wall and the next layer of building material) You will find you will get a lot of things for your tank that you will wish you had some storage for too, and what better place then underneith the tank!

Personally, I would get the hole cut in the wall and place a large bay window frame the size of the tank, plus 2-4 feet on the bottom and 1-2 feet on top for storage and equipment. The frame is designed to distribute the load of the house above down to the floor and whatever is supporting that (load bearing or not (most all boarder walls are load bearing seeing as they hold the roof up, and houses have windows so the frames must work!))

after the frame, I would build two cabnets (on either side of the wall) and the aquarium would rest on these cabnets, so make sure they can take the weight of the tank but not it should not be part of the wall system. Here if you dont like wood, you can look into thin veneers like slate and whatnot to make on your doors.

Lastly, up top, a unit to hold the lighting, cooling, and whatnot.

I will draw a sketch and post it when i get home. But keep in mind, it won't be engineered. (It may be under or over engineered but I wont know how much it could hold.)

Piti
I'm assuming that there are very different building styles in play here as a significant percentage (vast majority?) of UK houses are entirely brick built, sometimes to more than 3 stories. Also, without exception (even in my 2-300 year old stone house) all doorways and Windows have lintels to take the load of the wall above. The window frame just stops the glass falling out.
Miles.

 

[Piti]

[/quote]
Piti
I'm assuming that there are very different building styles in play here as a significant percentage (vast majority?) of UK houses are entirely brick built, sometimes to more than 3 stories. Also, without exception (even in my 2-300 year old stone house) all doorways and Windows have lintels to take the load of the wall above. The window frame just stops the glass falling out.
Miles.
[/quote]

Ahh lintels! thats the word i was looking for.

I'm not the surest of UK housing, but I do have a question or two. In Ontario a brick house/wall will have it's length of bricks supported on 10inches of concreat with a half inch over hang at a minimum of 6 inches above grade (ground level) followed by 1 inches of air space, a drip layer, vapour barrior, 2x4s stud walls with insolation, then gypsme board (dry wall) (i may be missing a few layers) This is all in the span of about 10 inches. The bricks in most Canadian homes is not for support, nothing is sitting on them, and they are purly veneer.

Im assuming UK housing is close to that, as in on the inside of the house you dont see brick, and my point was only that bricks are only as good as the person who layed them.

And yes, building code is very different country to country, and can probibly very state to state and even province to province. In Ontario, houses have to withstand Canadian winters -40c and loads of snow. In flordia, there are standards for hurricane and floodproofing houses, but snow on roofs is not a factor.

Not to mention building materials varries from country to country. Canada has an abundence of SPF wood, where southern states, would not (SPF=evergreen)

 

[tribalbrit]

Hi, for what it's worth I have been in the building trade for more than thirty years and have run my own company for the last ten years.
In the UK and if its an older type of house the internal walls wil be brick or clinker blocks.
The best way in my opinion would be to treat this project as if you were installing a window.
so if you want an 8' tank you should probably allow for an 8'4" opening, this allows for any plastering that requires renewing to the exposed brickwork once the wall has bean knocked out. once the platering has been done you should then be left with an opening of about 8'2".

BEFORE any wall is removed the ceiling and wall should be supported by the use of "acrow" props. (place a length of scaffold board or 6"x2" timber on the floor and hold another one on the ceiling. Then place the props between the two timbers ie; floor to ceiling. I would use 4 props for this length of opening.) thats the ceiling and floor above supported. This may need doing to both sides of the wall depending on the position of the floor joists above, better to be safe if your not sure.

The wall above the opening should also be supported before forming the opening, this can be done by carefully knocking out a hole approx. 9" wide by 3" high ( brick size) you will need 4 of these equally spaced along the top of your proposed opening. these should be approx. 7"-10" higher than the top of the tank when installed.
You then need to hire 4 short acrows and 4 "strong boys " The strong boys go through the holes and onto the short acrows.tighten every thing up, do not over tighten...
Remove the wall...
Insert a length of steel over which should be 12" longer than the width of the opening so that it sits 6" on either side of the opening. A length of 178 x 102 x 19kg should be adequate for this size of opening.

Cost? if you get a builder in I would have thought £1500-£2000 would cover it including plastering
Once the opening is formed build a brick/block plinth to the side that houses the tank to the desired height. On to this fix a 4 x 2 timber,then a sheet of 3/4" ply and 1/2" polystyrene,
Given the size of the tank the plinth should support the base front to back may be twice.Allow for a couple of cupboards under for pumps etc.
Once finished make good the plaster then re skim the entire wall and fix an architrave around the tank to form a picture frame look
Any lighting can be hung above the tank in the room that houses the bulk of the tank.
Tank try NB Aquatics for the tank my 6'x 2' x 30" was £500 so expect at least £1200.
Above is just my opinion. Structual work should be carried out by compitant tradesmen and local profesional advise should be sort prior to any demolition..Building regs may also be required.
Hope that helps

 

[Geordie2011]

Hi again, thanks alot for the replies it really has made me sort my head out about this.

I respect everyones opinion thank you so much for that.

Now the tank was originally going to be going in the wall but the problem is the fireplace is behind that wall and it is going to lead to problems so what I've decided to do is just have the tank against the full wall, for storage on stuff I don't mind the whole room is going to be just aquatics only so just picture an average size dining/sitting room. I don't really trust wood because my friend used to have a 6'2'2 and I just didn't think it looked right I want to go for bricks I also like the look of the brick look.

The guy is coming on Tuesday to check that the floors are strong enough.

I really don't want this to take forever which putting it in the wall is very time consuming, more expensive, messy until completed.

I know plenty of bricklayers that can easily sort me out to build the stand but how high up should the tank be?

I also looked at a few custom aquarium tank sites and will probably be paying around £1,200-500 (which I don't mind) that is 12mm or 15mm glass can't remember of the top of my head.

What type of fish can I keep in this size tank? Do catfishs like this size tank?

My other few questions on this size tank is gravel how much am I going to be spending on it? How long do I let this mature for before adding fish? Do I just get four 4ft strip lights? How many plants should I have in this size? I don't like the artificial decorations you can get which stuff are good to add to this size tank?

So just to point out the in wall is out the window I've changed my mind and putting it against the wall the in wall is a fantastic idea but it's too complicated.

 

[Piti]

Good choice. I would think it would be easier to put a tank into a wall before it is built.

I was only suggesting wood as a frame and having a slate veneer. I find bricks may box in some storage space need for a tank. Thats not saying 3/4 walls for the stand cant be brick in that case.

Chances are your floors are strong enough. Calculate the wieght yourself before you get a guy to do it because contractors may want work. Issues come in when you put tanks on 3rd floor housing where the support may be more spaced out. What you would do is find out what way your floor joists are going, or see if you have a steel H beem, or really thick wood one going. A tank on that beem, or on as many joists as possible 9/10 will work.

The tank should be at Viewing Level. Just as high as a TV stand, or dresser.

You might before looking for a custom tank, go into a local (or even not) LFS and look for the biggest tanks, and compare prices. Might save the hassel of some set up.

Depends what type of catfish... Some grow big... Really Really Really BIG. But because you already want a really big tank, i suggest you look at two sections of this forum. http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/forum/22-members-aquarium-and-fish-pictures/
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/forum/167-monthly-competitions/
Catfish are great... There are a ton of different types of them, and a lot more other fish out there that may fancy your tastes.

If you want to get cheep subtate, look into Silica/Pool Filter Sand, or Playground sand. (im a fan of sand) http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/277264-beginners-resource-center/ That part can aslo give you many ideas on reads. Everything you need to know about filters, heates, cycles (lfs dont always know the best) and whatnot.

 

[Geordie2011]

Guy is coming on Tuesday to check the floor. But if I go by bricks won't the floor need to be concrete not beams right?

I'm just wanting the tank setup before worrying about fish.

I'm going to use gravel not sand, I much prefer it.

Where is some good places to get wood and rocks?

What could I use to make the hood out of where the lights can sit in?

 

[curlyriff]

Just noticed you have two threads about the same tank we where discussing. now that you have got your ideas and what is happening with placement. I would say that you should always get someone in that can check the floor. The best person for the job is the Structural Engineer. He is an independent and does not gain anymore work with either telling you it is fine as it is or that you need to strengthen the floor slightly.

I would also suggest that the floor would not directly take the load over the footprint of the floor if it is beam and block or possible precast planks although commonly not used for ground floor.

Ideally you want to have a reinforced concrete slab. This though would mean having to do allot of work in the middle of the building. I know you are getting someone to have a look so they will give you a clear direction and solution.

I also stated my reservations about brick in your other thread but if you are contracting out then this should not be a problem. I would not load the bricks for about 48 hours after being finished as this will allow adequate time for the mortar to set.

You could go with concrete plinth walls or stepoc blocks and face with brickwork which would give you better strength and ease of build. You could then plan your pipe work etc. If you are going to do something like this I would suggest you have a separate maintenance area that is easy to reach and work in like a separate room that all the pipe work and plumbing can run from. This could then be set up with auto water change system and similar so that you can control all your maintenance.

For the cost of the tank I mentioned before in the other thread. I can knock up a quick sketch on google sketch up if you wish. I have got plans for my tank room and tank somewhere on my computer that I could attach to give an idea of what I would do for the tank.

I would suggest that you need to allow around £2000 for the tank (opti-white), £600 for sump, £800 for building work + floor dependant on what engineer says.

Lighting you either go for a pendant light or make a hood/get one made that houses 8 - 16No. Arcadia Eco LED lights or similar. These will have much better running cost compared to other lighting and are good quality if hood mounting. It would be around £800-£1600. It depends on what fish/plants you want.

If you go pendant lighting then you could go for 2No. ATI Power Module units which are around £500 each. Then you would also need around 12 bulbs which is another £240

All prices are approx but should give you an idea that it would be around £4200 - £5000 dependant on what you go for. That is before any decor, gravel, media, plants, food, heaters, thermostatic equipment, power heads, pumps etc. That again would be another £2000 - £3000 I would have thought.

If you went with an auto water change system in the sump I could see that being in the £3000 mark with the plumping and setting the timers, overflows, tank etc.

Anyways hope that gives you an idea of what is needed and your next steps.

Kind Regards,

Adam

 

[Rod Boughton]

Having read through this topic, i haven't seen any mention of applying for Building Regulations.

If you propose to make an opening through a load bearing wall, this is classed as a structural alteration and requires Building Regulation Approval, you will need to contact your local council Building Control Department to discuss it and make an application. There may also be fire safety issues to consider.

 

[Geordie2011]

Having read through this topic, i haven't seen any mention of applying for Building Regulations.

If you propose to make an opening through a load bearing wall, this is classed as a structural alteration and requires Building Regulation Approval, you will need to contact your local council Building Control Department to discuss it and make an application. There may also be fire safety issues to consider.

I've decided not to get it put into the wall but against the wall.

The guy has told me that the joists needed strengthen so I'm going to put concrete for floor instead and then build the stand with bricks. I will keep you updated.

I'm getting my tank from AC Aquatics. 96" 30" 30" £1274 which is fine. http/www.acaquatics.co.uk/bare_glass_aquariums.htm

I am going to start getting heaters, lights, etc on weekend.