Progress Report - Request For Opinions

Boulder Fish

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This is my third attempt at fishless cycling...long story, but there was a disastrous failure and then a move involved...
But (knock on wood) I MAY have gotten this right, finally...
I have a 20 gallon tank, and am keeping the temp at 85 F
I have ceramic rings in my "hang on back" filter, and a second, small, submersed sponge filter
I added an air stone on day 10

Here are my baseline (tap water) readings:
pH - 7.6
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 40

Once my water cleared after setup, I brought the ammonia up to 5 ppm
It took a full 15 days for that to clear, which brings us up to yesterday.

Day 15 readings:
pH - 7.6
Ammonia - 0 (then brought ammonia up to 4 ppm)
Nitrite - 1.0 ppm
Nitrate - not tested

Day 16 (25 hours later):
pH - 7.6
Ammonia - 0 (then brought ammonia up to 4 ppm again)
Nitrite - OFF THE CHARTS
Nitrate - 40

So, I ask you....are the fishless cycle gods smiling on me?
Is it not unheard of that it should take 15 days to process the first load of ammonia, but only 1 day for the second load to process?
And what about the nitrites, is it possible for them to rise that quickly (from 1 to Off the Charts) in 1 day?
 
Yeah perhaps unusual but not unheard of, we tend to think of the bacterias growth as linear and progressing on a fairly steady curve of growth which is not really true. WD does a good write up on it and perhaps he'll chip in here with it. But it's not unusual for growth to be in fits and starts.
 
You could see a very slow drop from day 13 to 14 followed by a much faster drop the next day. If you look at the bacteria's growth, it can double every 24 hours. Double the bacteria twice and you have gone from about 1 ppm per day to 4 ppm per day. The shift can be dramatic indeed. The build up to being able to process that first 1 ppm can look like nothing is happening at all. It is encouraging to have the ammonia processors ready to go. Now you just need to get the nitrite processors to the same levels.
 
This is great.
I am very encouraged. I do feel like I have better conditions this time around.

My next question is about changing nitrate levels in my tap water. When I initially did my baseline readings on the tap water I got 40 ppm for nitrates.
I did retest of the tap water yesterday, and got 0 ppm for nitrates. (I did the test with my API kit 3 times, as I know these tests are notoriously finicky)

Can the municipal water supply vary in nitrate content?
Would it make any difference or would it be helpful if I did a large water change while the tap nitrates are at zero?

Thanks for any advice.
 
yes it can vary, can be anything from a piece of machinery in the water processing plant that needed a service and has just had one giving you better quality water to a change in weather conditions meaning water is coming in to the supply from different places and therefore has different things in it.

don't fret about it though, there's evidence to suggest that 400ppm or even 1000ppm is safe for most freshwater fish so don't worry about a bit of fluctuation around the 40ppm mark.
 
Regarding the high nitrates(NO3) in the tap water, I agree that MW has covered the possible future concern for fish, but for now, during your fishless cycle your concern might be about the growth of the bacteria and yes, Hovanec has observed that high nitrate(NO3) levels will inhibit the speed of N-Bac growth. BUT, the kind of levels you are reporting (a high of 40ppm) is below where we would start to have any concern about this. Its just not a concern for you. You'll be better off not disturbing your fishless cycle for now and just steadily measuring and recording ammonia, nitrite, pH and nitrate levels and adding ammonia carefully.

One factor in the differing times we see for different people's cycles is the number of bacteria that happened to be in the water that initially filled the tank. Its certainly not something we could see or measure. Who knows? It could be that your supplier hit a bit of a low point in chlorine/chloramine treatment and a higher number of bacteria than usual slipped in. The evidence of higher than usual NO3 might even suggest the supplier was struggling with (or overlooking) some problem, and you lucked into some more "natural" ( :rolleyes: ) water for a short period, during which you filled your tank! Of course, its just silly, us thinking we can guess real causes.. it could be that there were -less- of some other autotrophic species that would normally compete against our desired ones within the biofilm.

~~waterdrop~~
 
This is fascinating. I am having a lot more fun with this process now that it is actually working! Perhaps I did "luck" into something with our local water supply...after what I've been through trying to get make this happen, I would welcome a little good fortune.

So, now I am on day 19.
The ammonia is processing SO fast. I am recharging from 0 to 4 ppm every 8 hours now.

I have had nitrites "off the charts" since day 16...
This afternoon I tested again, and they seem to have dropped to 1.0.
Am I seeing things? I guess I am just doubting because of how WELL this seems to be going.

I have had weird nitrate readings since day 16 as well.
I would expect to see them at a minimum of 40 ppm because of the tap water when I set up, but on day 17 I got a reading of 10.0 ppm.
Then on day 18, I got a reading of 5.0 ppm
Today (day 19), it seemed to shoot back up. It doesn't match the color chart exactly (using API liquid test kit), but definitely looks more RED than ORANGE...so somewhere between 40 and 160???

I have run each nitrate test 2-3 times to ensure I am getting an accurate result. How does this look to you folks??
Thanks again, all!
 
you only need to top up ammonia once every 24 hrs not everytime it drops to 0.

bear in mind every 1ppm of ammonia produces 2.7ppm of nitrite if you top up with 4ppm 3 times a day you'll be getting 32.4ppm of nitrite every day going through, no wonder it's off the charts.

do a really big water change to bring the nitrite down to a point where you can test for it and then just start topping up once a day. :good:
 
Thanks Miss Wiggle...

This is the part of RD's Fishless Cycling article that I must have misunderstood:

"Every time the ammonia drops back to zero, raise it back up to 3 to 4 ppm and continue to check nitrites. The nitrite reading will go off the chart. . . Once the ammonia is dropping from around 4 ppm back to zero in 12 hours or less you have sufficient bacteria to handle the ammonia your fish load produces."

The following line sort of amends that portion - "Continue to add ammonia daily as you must feed the bacteria that have formed or they will begin to die off." I think I understand now.

This brings me to my next question... How many hours can the bacteria go without being fed? I will be away from my tank for up to 36 hours this weekend. Do I need to make a new friend to come and add ammonia, or can they sustain that long?

Thanks
 
i think 36 would be fine, add a pinch or two of crumbled up fish food before you go, it'll release ammonia into the water more slowly andsustain them a bit longer.

at worst you may see a set back of a day or so in the cycle but you probably won't even notice any difference. :good:
 

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