Problems With New Tank, Ill Fish!

[greengoddess]

Hi Helen

I am afraid I can't offer any advice about medication for your fish (I am still a newbie). But... I will say that you have been given very good advice from members of this site. I was in a similar situation to you a few months ago and people like Assaye and drobbyb were a fantastic help.

My limited advice would be to forget about testing the pH, GH and KH for now. That will just add to the confusion and there are more important factors to consider at this stressful time. All you need to concentrate on are the ammonia and nitrite levels (and making sure the water temperature is steady and at the correct level for your fish). Also forget about all sorts of magic potions that your LFS will be trying to sell you. Most LFS don't gve a hoot about the fish, they just want to make money.

I am not sure if you have been using any sort of product to treat your tap water before adding it to the tank. You should really be treating it with a de-chlorinator like Tetra Aquasafe or Nutrafin Aquaplus. If you are not doing this it can be harmful to your fish and will also kill off good bacteria in your filter. The good bacteria process ammonia and nitrite and are essential. As you are doing frequent water changes you really need to treat the tap water before adding it to the tank. This should be high priority if you are not already doing it.

You must continue these large water changes. They are the only way you can successfully get your fish through this harmful period. At the moment you'll probably have to do a large water change twice a day. Keep checking for ammonia and nitrite. Whenever the levels rise significantly above zero, do another large water change. Try and get the fresh water to around the same temperature as the used tank water. It is a lot of work but keep at it. I had to do exactly the same and it all turned out well for me (and my fish).

Another basic rule is NEVER to wash out your filter sponges in tap water. This will kill the helpful bacteria. Leave them alone at the moment until your tank is fully cycled. Then just give them a light rinse in used tank water occasionally when necessary.

Best of luck.

 

[helen1207]

Hi greengoddes!
Thanks for replying, I really appreciate people taking the time to read and reply to this post!
Yer I've been adding the stress coat to dechlorianate the tap water and the tank is looking loads better.
The fish seam lot happier just still a bit worried about their overall condition. The advice I'm getting on here is priceless especially since ive lost all faith in the lfs!
The water changes and testing are quite a quick job really and I'm quite enjoying them as I feel the fish are going to benefit in the long run.
Mind you the kh and gh tests are above my head at the moment so I will take your advice and leave them out for a while:0)
I'm going to test again tomorrow afternoon and do another water change so trying the meds is probably pointless as the water changes will take most of it back out again!
Thanks for the reply and advice! ;0)

 

[drobbyb]

For the time being, only worry about your ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. Once you are cycled, we can do a bit of fine tuning if needed

 

[helen1207]

Thanks drobbyb i have given the other tests a miss for now
So i've done another 80-85% water change at 4pm today and just taken more readings now at 6.30, the AMMONIA is 0ppm the NITRITE is 0ppm and the NITRATE is 0ppm !! This is good so i take it i should continue to test every day and do water changes whenever the readings get above 0ppm but should i be medicating the water? The fish seam ok in themselves but surely the stuff on their mouths must be causing some discomfort?

 

[drobbyb]

If it's a white cottony growth, then it's a fungus. There are a few anti fungal treatments on the market, but for these to take effect they have to remain in the water column for some time. With all the water changes to control ammonia, this kind of defeats the purpose of the meds. Anyone have an idea how to treat for fungus while doing water changes?

 

[helen1207]

I've tested the water tonight before i do a water change and the AMMONIA is 0-0.25ppm the NITRITE is 0ppm and the NITRATE is 0ppm. I can do another water change to keep the ammonia down but am now getting worried about one fish in particular, he has broken off from the other 4 neons (who are swimming about as usual) and is at the top of the tank and hes breathing really fast! This is the neon with the discolouration on his body. I have melafix and pimafix?? I dont think hes gonna make it unless i do something! Any advice?

 

[Assaye]

It's probably the ammonia poisoning catching up with him. I'm not sure there is anything you can do other than keep the water as clean as possible.

Try to increase the oxygen in the tank by moving the filter towards the top so the flow breaks the surface or add an air stone (which will need a pump to run it).

What temperature is the tank?

 

[helen1207]

Hi Assay The temp is 27. Ive just done another 80-85% water change and hes now swimming again with the others, probably cos he did'nt have any choice with the amount of water left! Im gonna test again in about an hour then i'll post the results again.
The filter is giving out quite a few bubbles (i have the adaptor on to suck air in from outside the tank)so the water is rippling along the surface, i do have a pump, an elite 802 i think and an airstone but when i originally put it on it was that powerfull the water was bubbling over the top!

 

[Assaye]

Hi Assay The temp is 27. Ive just done another 80-85% water change and hes now swimming again with the others, probably cos he did'nt have any choice with the amount of water left! Im gonna test again in about an hour then i'll post the results again.
The filter is giving out quite a few bubbles (i have the adaptor on to suck air in from outside the tank)so the water is rippling along the surface, i do have a pump, an elite 802 i think and an airstone but when i originally put it on it was that powerfull the water was bubbling over the top!

Try lowering the temp. Turn the heater down to 24-25C as neons actually prefer the cooler temps. There is also more oxygen in cooler water.

Don't worry about an airstone if you already have plenty of filter bubbles.

 

[helen1207]

Ok, ive turned the temp down to 24, i did'nt know they prefered cooler temps!
Just tried the airstone and pump again but its way too much for the size of tank, i may try and get a smaller one as the fish all went to the other side of the tank pretty sharpish!
Just done the tests again AMMONIA 0ppm, NITRITE 0ppm and NITRATE 0ppm! The poor fish isnt looking great again but the others seem ok.

So quick update, it's 10.50 and just been down to see how the fish are doing and I'm convinced the little neon won't be alive in the morning :0(
he's breathing really fast at the top of the tank and just swam into the bubble stream from the filter and he went flying! He couldn't manage to swim out of the current.
I wish I could do something to help him....

 

[helen1207]

Ok update from yesterday, my neon is still with me!
Really didnt think he was gonna make it through to today but he has! Right, just tested again, results are AMMONIA 0.25ppm NITRITE 0ppm and NITRATE 0ppm, temp is now down to a steady 24. Im gonna do another 80-85% water change in a min...gettinq pretty quick at these now plus im going to try and put a couple of pics of the tank on here so you can see the set up.
Will post results in an hour or so

My 5 neons hoped for a clearer pic!

P.S igrore the dates, not sure how to get rid of these on the pics

 

[waterdrop]

Great pictures Helen and Welcome to TFF!

Have been reading through your thread with all the good advice from Assaye and Robby and others and I think its a good example of what a difference good water can make even when there are signs of disease response to previously bad conditions. Even neons, which are quite sensitive to new tank situations and moves, can make it if the basics of low ammonia and low nitrite are understood.

By now you probably recognize that your situation is called a Fish-In Cycle and there's a write-up about it in our Beginners Resource Center that can be a good read, even after you've been doing your own real hands-on version of it! Having 0.25ppm concentration of either ammonia OR nitrite be the worst that it hits and then water changing it back down to a measured zero ppm or trace is the way to keep it safe for them.

Eventually, at some point, you will not be finding traces and not need to water change. If you can test and find this for a week then your Fish-In cycle will have finished and you can being lightening up on the testing. We often say that a month is a very rough average to be thinking about for a fish-in cycle.

~~waterdrop~~
ps. the environmental/science side of what's going on is explained in the "Nitrogen Cycle" article in the BRC

 

[helen1207]

Hi Waterdrop Thanks for taking the time to read my thread, i cant believe how much im learning from being on here!
All the advice im getting is priceless considering i did'nt know anything about testing etc.Its really interesting reading through the other posts and seeing what is advised!
I've just been reading through the info on 'fish in cycling' and 'fishless cycling'and just wish i had gotten on this forum BEFORE i bought the tank, i would definately have gone for the 'fishless' way!
Im quite enjoying the water changes and testing and i actually feel like im getting somewhere with it all now
The fish seam quite active at the moment, still worried about them but i'm keeping my hopes up that they all survive!
Helen

 

[Assaye]

Ok update from yesterday, my neon is still with me!
Really didnt think he was gonna make it through to today but he has! Right, just tested again, results are AMMONIA 0.25ppm NITRITE 0ppm and NITRATE 0ppm, temp is now down to a steady 24. Im gonna do another 80-85% water change in a min...gettinq pretty quick at these now plus im going to try and put a couple of pics of the tank on here so you can see the set up.
Will post results in an hour or so

My 5 neons hoped for a clearer pic!

P.S igrore the dates, not sure how to get rid of these on the pics

It's looking great! Love the photos - such a pretty tank.

Glad to hear about your little neon. If you keep up with those water changes he could well make it. Really happy to hear that you're getting the hang of all this. As I said, it's a total drag initially and often a shock for people who didn't realise it could be this much hard work but it's so worth it in the end!

This thread brings me back to this time last year with my first neons ^^

 

[helen1207]

Hi Assay Thanks, it does look so much better now the waters crystal clear! My partner thinks i've gone mad cos i spend all my time gazing into the tank then running back to the computer with coloured test tubes in hand
Tested now after the 80-85% water change earlier, AMMONIA 0ppm, NITRITE 0ppm and NITRATE 0ppm, temp 24.
The neon is still holding in there! Hopefully when this tank is cycled and ive got a bit more knowledge (been reading loads of threads ) i would like to get a bigger one in the frontroom but i will DEFINATELY be doing a 'fishless cycle'