Problems With Bristlenose Catfish

[miloski]

Hi all,
This is my first post here although i've been looking over the forums for a few months now.

I have a fairly new 50 litre tank (not sure what that is in gallons) i have had the tank set up for about 6 weeks now, it is a planted tank and we did a fishy cycle with 3 platys to get things started. Everything went well as far as i can tell, the platys are all alive and well and have managed to increase their numbers from 3 to 6.

Anyway, the reason i'm posting here is that i got a bristlenose catfish (approx 5cm long) about 2 weeks ago. He (or she) seemed to settle down well and everything seemed fine, that is, until this morning when i had to fish him out of our tank. It seems that he died overnight and i have no idea why. Last week i added an angelfish and a betta to the tank and both of those fish and the 3 adult platys and 3 fry are all doing fine. I'm a little concerned that i may have inadvertently starved the catfish to death. Our tank being fairly new i wonder if there wasn't enough algae for him to eat? I feed the fish every day alternating between a high quality flaked fish food (spirulina flakes) and a pellet food suitable for small to medium tropical fish. The only other thing i can think of is that i got the betta and angelfish from a differant aquarium shop than the rest of the fish.. is it possible they could carry something that the other fish weren't used to which ultimately killed the catfish? The platys are fine but i know they are pretty hardy.


The PH of the tank fluctuates between 7.8 and 8.0, temperature is between 24-25 degrees celcius, ammonia and nitrite are both 0 and there is a measurable reading of nitrates, which i can't remember right now.

I would really like to get another catfish (bristlenose or another smaller size catfish) but i don't want to do so until i can figure out what happened to the first one to prevent it from happening again.

Thanks for your help!

 

[Tuxyu3]

Don't really know what to say about the bristlenose other than you should feed them tablet food, they cannot just live of algae on glass, they don't even eat it when they are older.

Angelfish cannot live in a 50 litre their entire lives, they need a tank at lst 18 inches tall but also pretty long. Betta's should never be kept with another another long-finned fish (angelfish) and are best kept in a tank on their own IMO, angelfish can also be aggressive, especially to long-finned fish. You size tank is inappropriate and if if doesn't change I'm afraid somebody will die. They may seem to get along alright now but the simple fact is they are not compatible.

I know this isn't what you want to hear but don't be put off, we all make mistakes. Welcome to the forums

 

[Axodapanda]

The same thing happened here, actually last night. I have been having an algae bloom, and so I wasn't feeding any algae pellets to my BP, and it died last night.

 

[snazy]

Welcome to the forum and well done doing a successful fish in cycle with no casualties.
It's already been said that a 50 litre tank is very small for some of the type of fish you have and just the platys on their own is enough stocking but if they are getting on well with the betta then you can get away with this too but the bright platy colours may make him aggressive towards them in some cases, depending on the betta. The angel fish is a no, no, unless you upgrade 5-6 times the size of this tank the minimum in the near future.
As for the bristlenose, it's a new tank and there was probably no algae for it and it died out of starvation. The tank will be a bit smallish for it too. When it grows to full size, it will be stressed as hell in a little space like that, especially if the tank is bare. They also poop treble the amount they eat, which will cause more algae, so not really an algae solution but they do keep the tank glass clean. They need to be fed every day with algae based wafers too, regardless of the amount of algae in the tank.

 

[betta fish]

Bristlenose only really eat algae when they are young they tend to prefer other foods as they get older such as algae wafer/cucumber/courgette etc, they need to be fed these like in order to survive once adult and it needs to sink as they are bottom feeders, it is also best to drop these in at night when the other fish are sleeping, it does sound like it may have starved to death did the fish look emaciated to you when you removed it? did it have a hollow belly? this will point to starvation, if it was in good shape it was most likely due to another reason.

 

[brendyod]

Hi all,

This is my first post, in any forum, ever Wish me luck!

Miloski, i have a very similar sad story.

I have a 70L tank (I think this is just under 20 gallons?). Have had it for a few months. It's recently cycled quite successfully with a small school of juvenile Neon Tetras (which are still doing just fine). Unfortauntely, I have lost my 2 x bristlenose catfish in the past week or so. Both were very young (no more than 2cm-2.5cm), but seemed to be introduced successfully. I have plenty of driftwood, as well as a few live plants, and some silk plants too. My driftwood provides plenty of cover for them, and both bn's seemed happy and healthy for about a month. Then, all of a sudden, i found both lying on the bottom of the tank, in exactly the same position (this i can't understand!) about 4 days apart. I don't think oxygen levels are an issue either, as i have two generously-sized airstones, plus my filter run off shoots out of a pipe directly back into the tank (and water level is always higher than the outlet pipe).

All my levels are pretty stable and have been looking good for a while. Ammonia is 0ppm (ocassionally a slight reading... less than 0.25ppm though), Nitrites is 0.0ppm, and Nitrates are almost always at 10ppm (one reading I got almost 20ppm, but never higher). I test my water basically every single day using the API master kit (which i'm quite familiar with from my previous tank a few years ago). pH is generally about 7.8 (we have pretty hard tap water here in Sydney).

After the first bn died, the readings I took were all normal. After the next one died this weekend, all readings were normal too, except pH had risen to about 8.0 (not surprising as I hadn't done a water change for 5 days). I usually do at least a 30% WC twice a week).

After yestrday's WC, pH is back inline with my tap water (7.8).

As for feeding/diet... i fed the bn's algae wafers, as well as fresh cucumber (which they loved... even in the middle of the day, they could be seen sitting on the cucumber together having a good old munch).

Does anyone have any ideas why they both passed?

In my old tank, I successfully raised bn's, and my old tank definitely had a lesser water quality than my current tank because i was still very much a novice back then. I do of course, still have a lot to learn, but my knowledge and water parameters are both much better than with my old tank, and yet i've still lost my two bn's so young?! I know they aren't as resilient at 2cm (until they get to about 4cm from what i know?), but i'm absolutely stumped.

I also recently added two very juvenile Pakistani Loaches (YoYo Loaches - both about 3cm) and they seem to be doing fine... although since the death of the bn's, they do seem to hide a lot (and seem less active) more than when they were first introduced. This hasn't worried me too much, as i've raised Paki's before, and they ALWAYS hid in my old tank, for most of every day.

Anyway, sorry for the long first post... i just really want to work out what happened to both my bn's... the fact they both died within a few days of each other, and were found in literally exactly the same part of my tank, is really irking me. Any advice/suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks in advance!

 

[miloski]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

I know the tank is small, we have a 3ft x 1/2 by 1/2 we are in the process of setting up so the small tank will eventually be used as a quarantine tank (or maybe a fry tank if these platys keep breeding).

The bristlenose looked fine when i took it out of the tank, it didn't seem emaciated to me and i had a look for anything else suspicious but he looked ok.

I took a sample of our water down to the aquarium place, they kindly tested it for me and confirmed my own results that the water quality was fine (i also use the API liquid test kit).


I asked them for advice on what might've gone wrong, and they told me that the spirulina flake food i was feeding the tank was fine for the bristlenose too, they did not suggest i give him anything else (i believe spirulina is a kind of algae so that would fit with what you all have said about feeding). They did suggest my PH may have been too high for him (and maybe this is your problem too brendyod) it seems there are 2 schools of thought over here on the water PH, many people seem to think that using the water out of the tap is fine, that most fish here are raised in tap water therefore they have adapted to the higher PH and hardness. Others seem to think that the PH still needs to be around 7.4-7.6 and no higher.


One other thing i did notice while i was at the aquarium shop was that their bristlenose catfish were considerably more active than mine. When i got the first catfish he really wasn't that active, i assumed this was because they generally hide during the day and are more active at night so at the time i didn't think too much of it. Having seen the other catfish and how active they were i think mine may have been on his way out when i bought him.

On the basis of all this i'm going to have another go with a catfish, but i will be adding some veg for him in the tank to make sure he is most definitely not starving. We will also be upgrading to the larger tank in the near future.


As for the betta/platy/angelfish combo i guess i got some bad advice. I did my research and read that the betta was suitable for a community tank although there was a risk he would be aggressive to other long finned fish. My train of thought was that the platys were not long finned, therefore i expected them to get on ok. I also knew the angelfish could be mildly aggressive, however i was also told that a juvenile angelfish reared in a community tank was likely to be ok with other fish. What i did not realise was that the angelfish was going to pick on other long finned fish like the betta. The aquarium people insisted that the combination would be ok and i believed them. Silly me i guess. I am watching things closely, there are enough hiding places that noone is suffering too badly yet so i think i have enough time to find a new home for the angelfish. It's such a pity because i really do love them, but i can see the angelfish will be a problem in the long run.

As a side note, we didn't get the bristlenose to keep the tank clean, i have kept catfish before and i know they are 'dirty' fish (in that they poop a lot) i thought they were interesting and a good community fish and that's why we got one.

Fingers crossed the second bristlenose fares better than the last one. Double fingers crossed that my platys keep their legs (fins) closed for awhile or else i might have to find them and all their babies new homes too.

 

[mossonthemoon]

I kept bristle noses for years, and they bred like mad. None of them ever kept more than a small piece of glass clean. They ruled the tanks and no one picked on them, though. I fed them wafers, but not every day. They tended to gorge themselves on the normal (high quality) pellet food the rest of the fish got. They also ate blanched vegetables, my bogwood (it was stripped, and I have read they need this), and their favourite treat seemed to be cockles. We got them from the LFS and they were specially treated to prevent pathogens. We would drop them in frozen in the summer, and no other fish would be able to open them, no matter how hard they tried. The BNs would just pop them open without effort and unless we put in quite a few, any other fish was lucky to get a bite. They loved them and seemed to spawn more with them. I went into such detail with that to show that they are definitely not vegetarian, and also because I think they are worth getting if you can find them for any future BNs. It's quite entertaining.

And I agree you will want a bigger tank than you think for the BNs. They are poop factories. When I had too many at one point (no way of offloading fry for a short time), it was a huge challenge to keep up with the cleaning.

 

[snazy]

Although you are feeding spirulina flake food, a small bristlenose, especially a weak one may not(will not more likely) get anything with platies, betta and an angel fish in the tank. You also need to feed the other fish some more meaty stuff from time to time. Get a cucumber or zucchini and put a slice in the tank weighted with something(I use a stainless steel fork) or cut a longer piece an hang with with a clip on the side of the tank. The cucumber can be row, just sliced and peeled. The zucchini needs to be blanched a bit. The plecos love these too and the rest of the fish won't eat it really. Always make sure you pick an active pleco with full belly.

 

[Tuxyu3]

The bristlenose thing seems to be covered so i just want to add something about the angel.

It is heard of (though rare) that angels can be alright but to give you an example my angel i have was very small when i got him and timid, i even worried that he would not get enough food. Now that he has got his feet under the table and grown he has become very territorial and nippy, it was a gradual change in my case so look out for the warning signs.

 

[brendyod]

Hey all,

Sorry, I know I may have semi-hijacked miloski's original post with my own lengthy post yesterday (very new to this, so apologies if i have not followed proper ettiquette - should I have started a new post if i had so many questions?) but i really need some help on my original post. I got home last night and found one of my young Paki's dead under some drift wood. My other paki is not looking well either. He just sat on top of the suction cap that holds my heater in place for most of the night... he didn't even move when i tried to hand feed him (although did eat a few flakes, but ignored his usual food - which is high quality meaty loach wafers). I fear i'm going to lose him too I re-tested my water again last night and all paramters are spot on, and pH is back down to 7.8 or a little lower.

I really don't understand what is going on. My Neon's seem absolutely fine (although i know they are quite hardy fish).

Is the fact that the two bns i lost, plus my pakis', are all bottom feeders the key, perhaps? I do regular water changes and gravel vacuums...

The only other thing that i can think of is that I added a grassy plant last week that came from my mates new goldfish tank (was only a few days old when i took it off him). His tank was heavily over-planted so i thought rather than throw out seemingly good healthy aquatic plants, i'll put them in my much larger tank. I gave it a good rinse beforehand though... And none of my paramaters changed with the introduction of this plant.

Could the introduction of this plant have anything to do with all these deaths? What else could it be? I don't think it's an over-stocking issue, nor 'New Tank Syndrome'. Any ideas, anyone? I pride myself of taking REALLY good care of my tank, every single day... and i absolutely love the hobby, but it's really getting me down because i can't understand what it happening, and what i've done wrong/how to rectify it.

Thanks again.

 

[miloski]

Brendyod - have you taken your water to an aquarium shop? because our water is both high in PH straight from the tap and also pretty hard the aquarium people recommended to me getting it tested to find out the actual makeup of the water (something about the percentage of carbonates and salts) because apparently that can make a big difference to some fish. I don't think that was my problem in the end, but it might help you.


I really don't know enough about this yet to give you much advice. I have kept koi and goldfish before though and maybe i'm wrong but i have generally found that unless there is a parasite or bacterial problem in the tank the plants are usually ok to be moved into a different tank without introducing problems.


As for the angel everything seems to have settled down in the tank and everyone is behaving themselves (for now). I am not sure whether it will be better to rehome the betta or the angel though, i'm a little worried that once i remove the angel the betta may become aggressive towards the platys.



I got a new bristlenose today and she has settled in well (apparently she is a she). I have a cucumber and algae wafers for her dinner so i really hope she fares better than the last one. Having watched her in the tank over the course of today her behavior is completely different to the first BN so that is confirming my suspicions that perhaps the first BN was weak or unwell when i first got it. I guess that combined with the competition for food was the cause of its demise.

 

[brendyod]

Thanks miloski.

I think I will take a sample to my LFS and see what they say. I was wondering the same thing myself as obviously with the API liquid kit, I am restricted with what I can test.

Great to hear your new bn is doing so well. And good call on the cucumber... it's cheap and they seem to absolutely love it!!

Keep your fingers crossed for my remaining yoyo

And if anyone else can offer any other help... trust me, i'm all ears!

 

[big fishy]

unfortunately i cant offer any explination as to why your fish died. however i can offer you some advice about bristlenose and other rasping fish. keep the fake stuff in the tank to a minimum. this means all your fake plants (silk to a lesser extent but the same principle applies), painted rocks and painted ornaments and such. you need yo be aware that the bristlenose can mistake the colour on a painted object for algae and will subsequently rasp it off and eat it. if you do want to combine bristlenose with ornaments and fake plants make sure that they are replaced regularly.

i learnt the hard way, i put in an old tunnel to provide some cover for my bristlenose after i took out a large portion of plants from my tank. within a week my three bristlenose had stripped all the paint off and they all died the following week.







(you don't need any fancy gadgets to tell you what your water quality is, your fish are the best gage you have.)