I'm having trouble keeping plecos, long term... numerous tanks, and conditions???

[Magnum Man]

all tanks have been 10% per week, or a little longer, plus make up for plant use and evaporation... on this tank, a 45 gallon, I draw 5 gallons, and add back 15 gallons... and this particular tank is a dark water tank...

 

[MaloK]

I would try an experiment...

Ramp up the water changes up to 50% every week for 7 weeks. or Until you can be sure all the water has been replaced at a good pace. and the water is back to nearly no tannin.

Vacuum the maximum of mulm you can. Since they are grazers, too much waste products in their diet is detrimental in the long term.

But I would start with a good "purification of the water" by massive dissolution.

If you are going to try. Don't use pure RO. But re-mineralised or a mix of your well and RO to maintain your water hardness.

 

[Magnum Man]

I appreciate the help, but this is the last tank to have trouble with plecos ( 3 others previously, 2 of which were clear water ) and coincidentally ( again this is only the latest to have issues ) I do nothing to add tannins to this water, the color comes from the king tigers chewing on the wood... and this tank has many other fish that want the dark water, & I'm having no issues with any of them, this has been one of my most stable tanks... the only reason the plecos are in this tank is, because I can't get them out, without completely destroying it...

 

[anewbie]

all tanks have been 10% per week, or a little longer, plus make up for plant use and evaporation... on this tank, a 45 gallon, I draw 5 gallons, and add back 15 gallons... and this particular tank is a dark water tank...

What does dark water mean - does it mean tap water with a bit of stuff leaching or does it mean ro water.

Also i do a 50% water change on all tanks under 80 gallons and 40 gallons (fixed) on all tanks over 80 gallons. Drawing 5 gallons is almost nothing as the 'stuff' in the water stays when water evaporate so over time the water will be quite polluted if you have any density of fishes.

 

[Magnum Man]

I give up... I guess I'll take up raising field mice, since the 100 year old farm house has no shortage of those

 

[CaptainBarnicles]

I give up... I guess I'll take up raising field mice, since the 100 year old farm house has no shortage of those

YES!

 

[MaloK]

I you search for Allelochemicals produced by plants.

It becomes clear that plants are also part of the bioload of a tank and are contributing to "toxin" buildup.

What I call toxin is in the sense of chemical released in the water. And "studies" already demonstrated that allelochemicals are wide spread and has great influence on ecosystem processes.

So technically speaking we have no idea if the plants are not releasing chemicals that could become problematic in high quantity, no idea what, how and if, it buildup.

But In tank with humongous bioload, "Larger than a half" water changes are a must. Or things slowly drift south...

My personal opinion tho.

 

[anewbie]

I give up... I guess I'll take up raising field mice, since the 100 year old farm house has no shortage of those

Well that is your choice of course but conversely you could learn to be a better fish keeper; then again a lot of folks (I hear) really get into those field mouses after all they are quite intelligent. I hear they know how to re-arrange a drawer to hide when they have stolen candy....



I can't find it but there is actually a long research article on the things mouse do at night that is quite impressive

 

[CassCats]

I'd definitely be suspicious of the water change regime being the inevitable culprit.

Plecos often come from fast moving rivers and these have a high turnover rate of water. There is little built up of waste as it is washed downstream very quickly.

This makes them very sensitive to pollutants in aquariums and are not likely to thrive longterm in tanks that don't remove at least 50% regularly, waste and pollution builds up, even ones we do not test for. Plants do not remove disease pathogens from the water or other pollutants. Most plecos are not used to living in environments with a high rate of these things.

 

[Magnum Man]

well, to drag up this subject again... I'm now at normal to above normal on the water changes... but I'm still witnessing "Zombie" disease in one tank... it seems to be effecting some Cory's and cichlids right now, and this is a tank heavily taken over with pothos roots... maybe it's stress related??? maybe there is some bacteria or a virus in the tank??? I doubt it's something in the water, as there has been several months now, of heavy water changes, and I've been leaving my canister filter with the UV light, running in this tank, along with the 2 hang on back filters... but I've been slowly, but steadily losing Cory's and cichlids in this tank... it's a strange and prolonged death... the fish will move from spot to spot in the tank, staying in un natural positions, looking dead, only to swim away, if I try to retrieve it from the tank, only to "crash" in another place, in an un natural position... this can go on for a week or longer, before they actually expire... they appear normal, and are not picked on by the other fish, before they become effected, after which, they appear dead for a week or two, before they actually pass??? if it is a bacteria, or virus, it apparently started with plecos, and now seem to effect cory's and cichlids... it doesn't seem to effect the Tiger Silver Dollar, at least so far???

 

[Magnum Man]

BTW way, my King Tiger plecos in a different tank have been thriving, as well as several others, so this has shaken out to be a problem on one tank, rather than just a pleco problem...

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Bear in mins that the plecos live on the bottom of the tank. It is possible there is some parasite or worm down there as well that infects them and over time that may cause the problem. But plecos can make it difficult to see external symptoms or even their poop which gets easily lost in gravel.

If only the plecos are dying and none of the other fish that would argue for the problem being in the substrate rather than the open water. While I do plants in a lot of tanks I have no interest and therefore have not done plants with roots in the water and there rest of the plant in the air above the tank. I have no idea what might grow on the roots or even if they may be bad for some fish munching on them.

The fact that the plecos live for years and then die young argues for a slow killing cause. Something that might have to accumulate in the fish over time. The fact that this is not restricted to a single species or two also argues for looking to what is unique to plecos for the nature/location of the cause, and that circles things back to the substrate

I have kept and bread Hypancistrus and a few others over the years. Many of these I have had for long enough that, given how old they were when I got them, lived into the range of 20 years old. I know I had zebras 20 years old or more.

My guess is well over 1,000 plecos have been born in m tanks over the past 20+ years starting with BN. But, for the most part my plecos have ;live in species tanks for the past 15+ years. the exception would be BN which mostly lived/live in community tanks. I would pull the caves with dads inside to species tanks for the offspring to grow in and then returned the dad and cave to the community tanks.

Most of my plecos have been B&W and smaller size- H. zebra, H. contradens H. L450, H. L173b, H. L173 and P, compta. I have both tank raised and wild caught breeders. I even had Farlowellas spawn in one of my community tanks.