Please Help!

[Jmt1108]

Hi all, I really need some help!!, I am new to the forum and new to keeping a "real" fish tank (i was previously able to keep a betta in a bowl alive for years followed by a fancy goldfish in a simple little tank for a few more years until hubby accidentally killed him- don't ask lol) So now I get this great 55 gallon tank and base from a friend for cheap and did lots of reading and research on starter tanks, etc. I dropped a few hundred dollars at a local reputable aquatic store for the gravel, plastic plants, fake rocks, an aquaclear 70 filter, heater, etc. I cycled the tanks for two months with the biostart and prime before adding any fish. I tested the water several times during that time and the pH did come up a little high, 7.6, but it matched the pH of our tap water and the guy at the store said if I start with a fish ok with alkaline water, it should go down over timewith waste, etc. so I started with five platies, and they started off pretty well, I even had two fry (survive). I did water changes (~20%) every two-three weeks with prime added to buckets of water filled from the tub after siphoning out the gravel and letting it sit out for some time. I keep the temp around 76 deg. I lostone fish and brought my water in to be tested. It was still alkalotic, so i got something to drop the pH. I added it as directed every couple days until i went through about half the container (supposed to treat 700 gallons!) and it was still reading 7.6! (testing everyday)

At that point a friend was moving and had to get rid of four random fish, including a couple tetras and a pleco. I hadnt lost another fish in awhile so i thought I'd give it a shot, and again all was good for awhile. Then I started losing fish more rapidly. The fish doing the circles of death for a few days before i could put it out of its misery with clove oil. I saw no signs of ich or bacteria, growths or anything. I lost all but two platies plus the two babies, which the fish store guys said could be more resilient bc they grew up in that environment. Once all seemed stable for a few weeks, I chanced it with four more platies and four danios. The pH never reading below 7.6. Well that didn't go well at all and i am losing fish almost daily. I finally got a high range pH kit when i realized that 7.6 could mean over 7.6 and it read 8! So I took everything out of the tank (plants and decor) bc I cannot figure out why its so high and resistant to that stuff i am still putting in to try to drop it! I change ~20% of the water as often as I can- at least once a week- (not too easy bc I am 8 months pregnant, hubby has little to no interest and the tub is two flights up!) so now what?? I am losing one of the babies now and partly want to scrap the whole tank and start over. Could it be something in the gravel? Would sand be better? What do I do with the fish I have if I do want to try to dump the whole thing? I am so upset and feel terrible for the fish I have in there! Could it be something in the food? I have a standard recommended flake food. Please help!!

 

[Donya]

I'm going to move this over to tropical emergencies since it sounds pretty serious.
 
What specifically have you been adding to lower the pH? Whatever it is, I would stop adding it for now if the pH is just holding steady with or without it. Also, are you testing anything other than pH? What has the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate been doing during these problems? A pH of 7.6 or even 8.0 shouldn't be causing the described symptoms. 

 

[Ninjouzata]

to the forum!
 
I hope you do know the bowl was not suitable for the betta, unless it was quite large, and a little tank for any goldie is a big no-no. Not trying to pick on you or anything just wanted you to know that for future reference.
 
You added biostart and prime, what about ammonia? If you didn't add ammonia then you did not cycle your tank. You want to see ammonia, then nitrites, and then nitrates.
Have a read of the Cycling a Tank article at the top of the page to give you a good idea of what should have been done.
 
What kind of test kit are you using, strips or liquid? Strips are known to be rather inaccurate.
What are your readings for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate?
 
The pH is not really of much concern, as most fish can adapt well to whatever you may have.
If you get the fish from nearby then chances are they are already used to that pH level.
It's more than likely causing a lot of stress on your fish since you keep messing with it.
 
You should be doing a minimum of 25% water change a week.
 
Can you give a list of all the fish? It's hard to keep track of them reading through your post, so a little list would be quite helpful.
 
A large water change may be in order, but I think you should wait for people with more experience to advise you on that.
I'm wondering if you did a large one if it'd affect the pH too much and stress your fish even further, although depending on the ammonia & nitrite readings the pH swing would be the least of your concern.
 
Sorry I couldn't be of more help, if you can get those readings for us that'd be great.

 

[dave840f1]

You asked if it could be something in the gravel, it could be the gravel causing the rise there are gravels you can buy that are neutral and don't affect Ph. so the Ph. stays at your preference. Having said that as previously pointed out there are many factors that cause a fluctuation in the Ph. Hope this helps.

 

[Jmt1108]

Thank you for your replies! When I first cycled the tank, I was advised I only needed to check ammonia, not nitrates or nitrites. I used "EasyStart" (sorry, not biostart) and watched the ammonia spike and come back down. The ammonia has always read zero when tested since then. More recently, when I started testing the high range pH, I also got the big testing kit and tested nitrates and nitrites as well as ammonia, which all read zero. I use the API drops and testing kit and rinse each vial with the tank water before testing. I did try the strips too a couple times and it read low alkalinity, so i stopped testing with that. The high range pH kit is really difficult to tell the difference sometimes, but appears to be close to 8 today. Could it be a bacteria? I also forgot to mention that I once cleaned the outside of the tank with windex, that was months ago, and I've probably changed the whole tank a couple of times since then, and have learned that it could be harmful (sorry!). I also do use aquarium salt (1 tbsp/5 gallon) and never added ammonia to the original tank per se, just the easy start.

I currently have three large danios, three female platies and the two small baby platies (from earlier females) (about 1/2-3/4 inch long), but the two babies are resting on the gravel today and didn't really come up to feed so I am afraid they are next Can I replace the gravel without taking out the fish? I only have one other small (6 gallons?) 'backup tank' without a filter, so I probably need to go and drop some money on a new small tank setup if I want to start over with this one so I have a place for these fish in the meantime.

Thanks again for all yourhelp!

Ninjouzata- notes taken thats why I am trying to do this one right! And actually I didn't laugh (despite when I wrote lol) when that goldfish died, I cried and was quite mad at my SO for that one! But that was several years ago.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Hi Jmt. I am going to suggest something you probably don't want to hear. I think you need to rehome the fish and forget about the tank for a bit and concentrate on your soon to arrive baby. This is way more important than any tank and needs your full attention. This is not the time to be cycling a tank and doing lots of water changes. Once you have given birth and have settled back in at home and have recovered from the process and are feeling fine, then you can restart your tank.
 
The last thing you need over the next few weeks are problems with a new tank.
 
When you are ready to get it set up again and get it cycled properly, You can shoot me a PM or post again and I will be happy to help you get the tank up and cycled.
 
You don't give your location in the states in your info, but it should not be too difficult to find folks who might take your fish and shrimp for a while. You can always ask the store to take them back for store credit so you can buy things back when the time comes.

 

[Ninjouzata]

Absolutely agreed with TTA, I meant to suggest rehoming the fish in my response but was a bit tired & forgot. Congratulations by the way

 

[Jmt1108]

Thanks TTA and Ninjouzata for the advice In my head, i would've had a nice stable tank with just regular maintenance to take care of by this point and maybe my husband would've helped out more. Then me and the baby could just sit back and watch the fishies swim around Do I have to worry about this actually being a disease that could spread if i gave them away? I'd feel terrible if i trashed someone elses tank bc they were sick. And I am not sure if the fish store would take them back but i'll look into it. Thanks again.

 

[Donya]

I don't know for sure about the disease aspect unfortunately. It sounded more like an environmental issue to me given that the pH weirdness is going on, as I'm not familiar with any communicable freshwater diseases that don't have obvious outward symptoms like spots, lesions, etc., but proof that it's environmental would take a fair bit of further digging into the issue. Most stores will take fish back (provided they aren't obviously diseased) as long as you don't ask for a refund. Big chain stores can be a bit more difficult; some have policies against accepting fish back after some period of time. Smaller shops usually will take fish that are in need of urgent re-homing. 
 
By the way, to address the gravel part since I missed that before: if your gravel isn't made from coral (aragonite), odds are it is either fairly inert or even synthetic. You can always test whether a material will alter pH by getting some distilled water in separate container, testing the pH, and then putting a decent-sized sample of the material in question into the water, and then testing the pH again a few days later. Sometimes it's a good idea to run a control sample of just the distilled water to account for any small pH fluctuations caused by things like ambient CO2. 

 

[Jmt1108]

Thanks again for everyone's input. I am going to look into rehoming the ones that are left. Just a question about the platys though, before they go, they seem to hang out at the bottom and even when they do swim around, they keep their fins in close to their bodies. Is this just being sick or could it indicate somethig specific... Again, no specific marks to indicate a bacteria. I got the pH down slightly with another water change but doesnt seem to matter