Please help, I’m pretty sure my betta has parasites but if I’m wrong, could treating him be dangerous?

[Lmscott]

am not sure if this is the right spot to post but I just am hoping I can get an answer in a fairly quick amount of time. I discovered this forum while trying to Google my bettas symptoms. To explain as brief I can, basically I got a half moon tail betta not even a month ago and noticed when I got him he had white stringy poop, at the time I though nothing of it. I just read however that it could be a sign of parasites, and parasites could lead to the same symptoms as swim bladder disease, which is what I’m seeing in him. I haven’t noticed any more hanging poop since I’ve had him however I have white gravel. Also, his symptoms have gotten so bad to where he can’t swim at all he’s laying on the bottom of the tank and when he tries to swim, his tail drags him back down. I’ve been fasting him for almost 3 days and was going to give him a pee afterward (as this could be swim bladder from overfeeding, when I got him he refused to eat for a week so I kept adding it and should have sucked up what fell because I think he has now eaten all the food from those five days. I raised the temperature of the tank , keeping it at 82, but he can’t swim normally at all and I’m wondering if I need to treat him for parasites just in case? Since he did have the white stringy poop and He’s gotten so bad. I’ve placed betta hammocks and other plants all over so he can use them to rest near the surface.
His behavior is not lethargic though, other than him laying on his side when no one is near but when I go to the tank he almost gets oddly excited thinking he is getting food. I wish it would let me post a video so you could see, it’s hard to capture how bad his symptoms are in still pictures. I noticed he’s even trying to eat stuff off the gravel and plants now, like he’s desperate, which that hunger to me says parasites too. He really doesn’t look too bloated, I’ve seen swim bladder multiple times and I have never had it where their tail is pulling him down and when he tries to rest on a plant he his spine curves and he topples over.
So much for brief, but I guess right now, my question is will it be harmful to treat him for parasites if he doesn’t have them? The fact that he’s acting like he’s starving and that I don’t see any brown poop on the white rocks... along with his worsening condition despite being on the third day of his fast? The stores close soon so I hope to get a response quickly but I know that’s no realistic. I’ll probably just buy the treatment and see what you all have to say . My bettas have always lived two years at the minimum, the longest lived 5 years, so seeing him go downhill after a month is upsetting. If he had the stringy poop a month ago when I got him and he’s now this bad, had I know white poop meant that I wouldn’t have ignored it obviously. The fact that I see zero poop on the gravel is also a bit of a red flag. So I’m hoping you experts can help and educate me, could this be from parasites or is it just swim bladder ?

 

[Colin_T]

I can't tell anything from the pictures.

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Do not add chemicals or treat fish unless you know what is wrong with them. Lots of fish die from chemical poisoning when they have nothing wrong. Alternatively, people load the tank up with anti-biotics and that does nothing to fix the fish but does create drug resistant bacteria that can kill people, animals, birds and fish.

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Swim bladder problems in fish are rare and have nothing to do with feeding. The swim bladder is a balloon like sack in the body that helps the fish remain buoyant in the water. If the swim bladder pops or develops an infection, the fish will sink as soon as it stops swimming, or it might float to the surface and struggle to swim down. However, if fish eat a lot of dry food and ingest air at the same time, they can also float about until they fart out the air they swallowed.

I doubt your fish has a swim bladder problem and even if it did, there is no treatment or medication for swim bladder problems.

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Have you checked the water quality for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH?

How often do you do water changes and how much do you change?
Do you gravel clean the substrate when you do a water change?
Do you dechlorinate the new water before adding it to the tank?

How often do you clean the filter?
How do you clean the filter?

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I would feed the fish each day. Use a variety of different foods including frozen (but defrosted) if you can get some.

I would do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate each day for 2 weeks.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it's added to the tank.

I would clean the filter if it hasn't been done in the last 2 weeks. Wash filter media/ materials in a bucket of tank water and re-use the media. Tip the bucket of dirty tank water on the garden/ lawn.

 

[Colin_T]

If the fish is still doing a stringy white poop, the following information might help. However, if it is not doing a stringy white poop, you don't need to bother treating the fish for it.

Fish do a stringy white poop for several reasons.
1) Internal Bacterial Infections causes the fish to stop eating, swell up like a balloon, breath heavily at the surface or near a filter outlet, do stringy white poop, and die within 24-48 hours of showing these symptoms. This cannot normally be cured because massive internal organ failure has already occurred.


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2) Internal Protozoan Infections cause the fish to lose weight rapidly (over a week or two), fish continues to eat and swim around but not as much as normal, does stringy white poop. If not treated the fish dies a week or so after these symptoms appear. Metronidazole normally works well for this.

There is a medication (API General Cure) that contains Praziquantel and Metronidazole.

It's interesting that API and the Californian government have listed Metronidazole as a carcinogen. That's a concern considering it was widely used to treat intestinal infections in people.

Anyway, if you use this or any medication, handle with care, don't inhale the medication, and wash hands with soapy water after treating the fish or working in the tank.


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3) Intestinal Worms like tapeworm and threadworms cause the fish to lose weight, continue eating and swimming normally, do a stringy white poop. Fish can do this for months and not be too badly affected. In some cases, fish with bad worm infestation will actually gain weight and get fat and look like a pregnant guppy. This is due to the huge number of worms inside the fish.

You can use Praziquantel to treat tapeworm and gill flukes. And Levamisole to treat thread/ round worms. If you can't find these medications, look for Flubendazole, which treats both lots of worms.

Remove carbon from filters before treatment and increase aeration/ surface turbulence to maximise oxygen levels in the water.

You treat the fish once a week for 4 weeks. The first treatment will kill any worms in the fish. The second, third and forth treatments kill any baby worms that hatch from eggs inside the fish's digestive tract.

Treat every fish tank in the house at the same time to prevent cross contamination.
You do a 75% water change and complete gravel clean 24-48 hours after treatment.
Clean the filter 24 hours after treatment too.

Do not use the 2 medications together. If you want to treat both medications in a short space of time, use Praziquantel on day one. Do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate on day 2 & 3. Treat the tank with Levamisole on day 4 and do a 75% water change and gravel clean on day 5, 6 & 7 and then start with Praziquantel again on day 8.

The water changes will remove most of the medication so you don't overdose the fish the next time you treat them. The gravel cleaning will suck out any worms and eggs that have been expelled by the fish. Repeating the treatment for 3-4 doses at weekly intervals will kill any worms that hatch from eggs. At the end of the treatment you will have healthier fish.

 

[JuiceBox52]

What size tank? How often do you clean the tank and how much water do you remove each time?

 

[Lmscott]

Colin,
I know the pictures are pretty much useless, I made a video but it won’t let me attach videos. Basically what you’re seeing is , the one where he looks like he’s swimming straight up....nope he’s not that’s how he is swimming, period. That was his attempt to swim behind the heater but the second he gets off a “perch” of some kind, his entire body is pulled up and backward by his tail and he sinks in that verticle position. The other one is him after he rested on a fake plant, and his body curves from the spine making him topple over.
I went ahead and treated him after reading more about parasites in fish and the body and swim issues it causes, as well as him being so ravenous for food now. There is no poop I can see in that tank, which means either he’s not pooping much at all (swim bladder ) or It just blends in with the white gravel since He had white stringy poop I noticed on more than one occasion. As for all the tank care advice, I appreciate the advise, I was anxious earlier because he looked like he was really stuggling and suffering and I hate anything suffering, period. I am not new to aquariums as panicked as I sounded. I have done all you said plus some, and know not to throw off the biofiltration. I test the water twice a week with a 5 in 1 and I also have Seachem alert combos on all my tanks so if the ammonia or ph were to have issues I would see it immediately. I do feed them once a day, he wouldn’t eat for days, and it didn’t seem like it would still be about the stress of being relocated by that time so in my want for him to eat something I probably left a lot of exess food on the tanks. I feed them pellets or betta crumble as well as freeze dried or or frozen brine shrimp and frozen blood worms. I really am not new to any of the 1:1 basics just have never had any type of sickness in any of my fish ever before other than swim bladder disease which, by the way, is not rare at all and totally caught me off guard hearing that from someone on a fish forum. Especially if you are a betta person.. I’m curious why you think that as I first started getting bettas in college at CSU and met the aquatic veterinary specialist who first told me about it. It’s actually so common but has such varied degrees of symptoms and varied symptom types that it can usually go unnoticed and resolve itself....It’s essentially constipation and that’s it.....
Which goes to the other thing that you said that caught me which was swim bladder has nothing to do with food.... ? the number one cause of it is over feeding because it causes digestive issues and too much gas to build up, especially from cheaper foods that contain air.
I’m not sure where you read or heard it’s rare, especially in betta people. Because Swim Bladder , not rare at all, and absolutely has to do with food, not always but it’s the main cause. Trust me I’ve researched it extensively after my first fish died from it before I knew how to treat it (last one, it can be treated , a very specific process actually , it’s not always effective if they don’t have it from overfeeding or stress though...
Not at all trying to be rude or belittling, like I said I was taken aback reading that on a fish forum.Thanks for the time and help though I appreciate all you advised and have checked it all off, hope this medicine helps.

QUOTE="Colin_T, post: 3875083, member: 38786"]
I can't tell anything from the pictures.

--------------------
Do not add chemicals or treat fish unless you know what is wrong with them. Lots of fish die from chemical poisoning when they have nothing wrong. Alternatively, people load the tank up with anti-biotics and that does nothing to fix the fish but does create drug resistant bacteria that can kill people, animals, birds and fish.

--------------------
Swim bladder problems in fish are rare and have nothing to do with feeding. The swim bladder is a balloon like sack in the body that helps the fish remain buoyant in the water. If the swim bladder pops or develops an infection, the fish will sink as soon as it stops swimming, or it might float to the surface and struggle to swim down. However, if fish eat a lot of dry food and ingest air at the same time, they can also float about until they fart out the air they swallowed.

I doubt your fish has a swim bladder problem and even if it did, there is no treatment or medication for swim bladder problems.

--------------------
Have you checked the water quality for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH?

How often do you do water changes and how much do you change?
Do you gravel clean the substrate when you do a water change?
Do you dechlorinate the new water before adding it to the tank?

How often do you clean the filter?
How do you clean the filter?

--------------------
I would feed the fish each day. Use a variety of different foods including frozen (but defrosted) if you can get some.

I would do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate each day for 2 weeks.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it's added to the tank.

I would clean the filter if it hasn't been done in the last 2 weeks. Wash filter media/ materials in a bucket of tank water and re-use the media. Tip the bucket of dirty tank water on the garden/ lawn.
[/QUOTE]

 

[Lmscott]

What size tank? How often do you clean the tank and how much water do you remove each time?

I know all the basic needs and requirements of bettas, trust me I had every box checked in care and quality before posting. My bettas are both in 5 gallon tanks, I clean the water once a week by vaccueming the gravel with a 20- 30 % water change. Every water change I add cleaning bacteria and water conditioner to not disrupt the tanks biofiltration

 

[Lmscott]

I know all the basic needs and requirements of bettas, trust me I had every box checked in care and quality before posting. My bettas are both in 5 gallon tanks, I clean the water once a week by vaccueming the gravel with a 20- 30 % water change. Every water change I add cleaning bacteria and water conditioner to not disrupt the tanks biofiltration

That sounded rude after I read it and I so did not mean to sound like a know it all, irritated person I’m so sorry! lol I just am frustrated , I’ve never once had a beta get sick other than swim bladder disease which is usually just treated by a fast or goes away by itself, but this I can’t seem to be able to help him and he’s really suffering. I really struggle watching animals suffer. All the responses, as much as I appreciate them were in regards to how to properly care for a betta fish, and not to over medicate your fish, etc ., which is all great advice had I been the person who still cleans their tank by emptying it completely and scrubbing everything with soap and water ..... Im not new to this, I’m aware you shouldnt just medicate you’re fish for every little thing without really knowing what you’re dealing with. So I’ve done all the first tries and I’m almost out of second. I’m not just gonna start throwing medications at him but I did get one for internal parasites because of the fact that he’s had stringy white poop and it said that the parasites can cause very funky swimming which is what he’s doing. The pic where he looks like he is swimming straight up to the top... ? Nope that’s literally what happens when he tries to swim and moves to where his tail falls from whatever he’s perched it on (I’ve added betta hammocks, extra plants). Literally the second he gets off the plant and is on open water his whole upper body and head are pulled up and back by his tail which then pulls him straight down to the bottom unless he uses the heck out of his pectorals to make it up to another perch .
So I truly do appreciate everyones responses, I just was hoping for some people to give me some concrete facts about what to look for because I’ve never ever had a sick fish, not ich, fungsl, bacterial, parasitic, fin decay, etc and I don’t know what to look for. I would have taken seriously the stringy white poo when I saw it a month ago but I just learned that’s a sign of parasites two days ago. I guess it’s just not all cut and dry. I feel bad I can’t help him

 

[Barry Tetra]

That sounded rude after I read it and I so did not mean to sound like a know it all, irritated person I’m so sorry! lol I just am frustrated , I’ve never once had a beta get sick other than swim bladder disease which is usually just treated by a fast or goes away by itself, but this I can’t seem to be able to help him and he’s really suffering. I really struggle watching animals suffer. All the responses, as much as I appreciate them were in regards to how to properly care for a betta fish, and not to over medicate your fish, etc ., which is all great advice had I been the person who still cleans their tank by emptying it completely and scrubbing everything with soap and water ..... Im not new to this, I’m aware you shouldnt just medicate you’re fish for every little thing without really knowing what you’re dealing with. So I’ve done all the first tries and I’m almost out of second. I’m not just gonna start throwing medications at him but I did get one for internal parasites because of the fact that he’s had stringy white poop and it said that the parasites can cause very funky swimming which is what he’s doing. The pic where he looks like he is swimming straight up to the top... ? Nope that’s literally what happens when he tries to swim and moves to where his tail falls from whatever he’s perched it on (I’ve added betta hammocks, extra plants). Literally the second he gets off the plant and is on open water his whole upper body and head are pulled up and back by his tail which then pulls him straight down to the bottom unless he uses the heck out of his pectorals to make it up to another perch .
So I truly do appreciate everyones responses, I just was hoping for some people to give me some concrete facts about what to look for because I’ve never ever had a sick fish, not ich, fungsl, bacterial, parasitic, fin decay, etc and I don’t know what to look for. I would have taken seriously the stringy white poo when I saw it a month ago but I just learned that’s a sign of parasites two days ago. I guess it’s just not all cut and dry. I feel bad I can’t help him

To post the video, post video on youtube first then copy and paste here.

 

[Colin_T]

I spent 20 years working in the wholesale and retail pet industry and spent most of the time working with fish. I helped take care of several hundred tanks containing thousands of fish and we had anywhere from 20-500 male Betta splendens at any time.

We rarely had any issues with them and they never had swim bladder problems. We never had constipated fish either, but these days, plenty of people claim their fish are constipated. That is kind of bizarre because constipation is normally a mammal problem and caused by dehydration or lack of fibre in the diet. Dehydration can't happen with fish because they live in water. Lack of fibre might be a cause but Bettas don't normally eat plants so a high fibre diet doesn't make sense for them either.

I have also kept most fresh and salt water fishes found in pet shops and started keeping fish in the late 70s, and none of my fish have ever had a swim bladder problem.

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From the Bettabox.com link you pasted:
Swim bladder disorder is when a betta has a disrupted swim bladder. This can be caused by overfeeding or it can occur with younger bettas when their swim bladders are not fully formed. This disorder is commonly seen in betta keeping and it usually goes away by itself. It's not contagious.

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I have no idea what they mean by a disrupted swim bladder.

re: Young Betta's swim bladders not being fully formed. The swim bladder is fully formed as soon as most fish have hatched and are swimming around. It grows with the body but it is normally fully functional from day one. If modern Bettas have problems with their swim bladder, it will be caused by inbreeding and poor genetics.

If the swim bladder has a problem, it is not going to go away by itself. When the swim bladder has an issue, it generally remains stuffed.​

 

[Lmscott]

Well on every site and every forum and every scholarly cited articles, it says it’s the most common fish disease, caused by constipation mostly from extra air in cheaper foods or then swallowing air. Then living in water would have nothing to do with their food being digested, they’re not porous with water flowing freely through their skin and organ membranes, and I personally have dealt with swim bladder multiple times, almost always successfully treated. I finished the treatment for my fish btw for swim bladder and parasites and he’s doing great. If you have all that experience with fish I simply don’t get how you haven’t dealt with or seen swim bladder. YouTube alone has a thousand videos showing bettas with it, but anyway I’m not trying to convince you, there’s nothing to convince, read the research, it’s common and caused by a multitude of things, the most common being stress.
I worked at a vet for 9 years and never saw heartworm disease, yet it’s not uncommon, especially in the south. Just because you worked somewhere and didn’t see it doesn’t mean anything you know? The facts are in the research .
Anyway thanks again

 

[Lmscott]

I spent 20 years working in the wholesale and retail pet industry and spent most of the time working with fish. I helped take care of several hundred tanks containing thousands of fish and we had anywhere from 20-500 male Betta splendens at any time.

We rarely had any issues with them and they never had swim bladder problems. We never had constipated fish either, but these days, plenty of people claim their fish are constipated. That is kind of bizarre because constipation is normally a mammal problem and caused by dehydration or lack of fibre in the diet. Dehydration can't happen with fish because they live in water. Lack of fibre might be a cause but Bettas don't normally eat plants so a high fibre diet doesn't make sense for them either.

I have also kept most fresh and salt water fishes found in pet shops and started keeping fish in the late 70s, and none of my fish have ever had a swim bladder problem.

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From the Bettabox.com link you pasted:
Swim bladder disorder is when a betta has a disrupted swim bladder. This can be caused by overfeeding or it can occur with younger bettas when their swim bladders are not fully formed. This disorder is commonly seen in betta keeping and it usually goes away by itself. It's not contagious.

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I have no idea what they mean by a disrupted swim bladder.

re: Young Betta's swim bladders not being fully formed. The swim bladder is fully formed as soon as most fish have hatched and are swimming around. It grows with the body but it is normally fully functional from day one. If modern Bettas have problems with their swim bladder, it will be caused by inbreeding and poor genetics.

If the swim bladder has a problem, it is not going to go away by itself. When the swim bladder has an issue, it generally remains stuffed.

And no, it doesn’t , because I’ve treated it. Disrupted as in it has pressure from air or constipation. Which you treat by fasting for three days and then feeding cooked peas (1/4 pea at a time) which the fiber then helps push everything along and every time after the pea they end up defecating a large amount. After which they swim normally. So it’s strange you haven’t seen it, as nothing I read up on says anything you’re saying, some of which no offense makes no sense. Like them living in water therefore can’t be constipated. Idk if you can show some research supporting what you’re saying great, otherwise maybe read up on it

 

[FishkeeperLinz]

And no, it doesn’t , because I’ve treated it. Disrupted as in it has pressure from air or constipation. Which you treat by fasting for three days and then feeding cooked peas (1/4 pea at a time) which the fiber then helps push everything along and every time after the pea they end up defecating a large amount. After which they swim normally. So it’s strange you haven’t seen it, as nothing I read up on says anything you’re saying, some of which no offense makes no sense. Like them living in water therefore can’t be constipated. Idk if you can show some research supporting what you’re saying great, otherwise maybe read up on it

There is a lot of misinformation on the internet, and probably even more on the likes of YouTube. I also wouldn't necessarily believe a vet, unless they are a fish specialist.

What @Colin_T said about the swimbladder is correct. What most people call "swimbladder" is constipation, and you're right - withholding food for a few days then feeding cooked, deahelled peas, does work. For constipation. Not for true swimbladder disease.