Please Help! Dead Fish And Bga War

[Whitey_144]

HELP!!! please help, dead fish!! I feel like giving up!

I have had a constant battle with BGA for months, this month I hit it hard with weekly large 60/70%water changes (with no real effect). I started a thread in the algae section and started a blackout (see below link):

http/www.fishforum...ga-headache-x2/

As per my post in that thread:

I did a blackout for 5 days, yesterday all the fish were fine and the BGA gone except a few tiny patches. So I turned the lights on for about 7hrs and did a 50/60% water change whilst cleaning debris on the sand (I dont often clean the sand), I then dosed about 13ml of TPN+ (into 220/30litres tank). All was good, but today I got home, turned the lights on and saw that 9 of 20 cardinal tetras are dead!!
The angelfish are fine and the apistos are fine, in fact the 2 females both have fry.

What could have caused this? I don't think it was bullying, because only the apistos chase them away from the fry, but never far and not to mass death!

I've also done large water changes before, the heat does drop when I put RO water into about 75, but then I put hot/warm tap water to even it out a bit and the heater stays on so doesn't take long to get back up to 80...not had deaths before in this tank or on other water changes (I also used prime liked normal on the tap water).

The only things thats different to before is the long blackout (although i've done shorter ones before), the larger TPN+ dose (hadn't been dosing anything recently) and the substrate clean. Any ideas what wiped them out?

The remaining cardinals are very skittish and sitting on the sand, as soon as i turn the lights out, they are fine and hovering about 3 inches up and acting normal. I'm thinking maybe its too bright? (and with less plants/BGA) less cover stressed them out too much? The lighting is two T8 powerglo bulbs on a 4ft tank.

Also, I can already see after 1 day the BGA is growing back. I'm sure within a few days it will be completely back....what to do?!!! I was going to do another blackout, after seeing it didnt get rid completely, but now that fish are dying, im scared to blackout straight away until im confident not more will die.

If I do another blackout and get rid of the BGA completely, could it still come back?

Any ideas as to what killed the cardinals, how to avoid it happening again and how to finally kill the BGA!

THANKS!


I will try to get some photos up.

ps, I did a water test today, TDS is 111, ammonia & Nitrite 0. Nitrate looked slightly lower than normal, around 40 (which is weird as I dosed with TPN+), usually its a darker red on the API test, PH i couldnt tell (bad lighting) coul be 7 could be 8, its usually about 7.4 (which is borderline almost on my API test kit, I have a feeling its higher today, but not sure.

is there potassium nitrate in TPN+? or just another nitrate? (probably a stupid question!)


I've uploaded 5 photos in photo bucket - link below. Under 'algae folder' there are 2 in October, showing what the BGA looked like and also with the tank haf cleaned, the November folder shows 2 photos I took today with dead cardinals in view. and the pre algae photo, is before my BGA nightmare.

http/s1080.beta.photobucket.com/user/Whitey_144/media/Algae/Algae%20November%202012/IMG_2819.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1

 

[WILDER]

Scroll down to blue & green algae. http/www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/algae.htm#blue
Have you increased aeration?

Have your fish show any of these symptom below.
Red inflamed gills, lilac gills, pale gills?
Gasping, or laboured breathing?
Darting, erratic swimming?
Swimming in circles?
Turning upside down?
Any excess mucas on fins, body, gills?

 

[MrsM]

Awww what a shame, your tank is amazing!
I suffered a thick carpeting of BGA, i did a huge clean up, 80% WC and then a blackout for 3 days, totally black, no peeking! And then i uncovered at exactly 72 hours had a good clean up and another WC and so far it hasnt come back...there is a cause for BGA and you need to find whats causing it, my reason was over dosing on stress zyme, i stopped using so much of it and hey presto...its gone.
Look into what causes BGA, try to fix that, then have a 3 day blackout after a clean up....as for the fishes passing not sure, but wilder will help, good luck x

 

[Whitey_144]

Scroll down to blue & green algae. http/www.thetropic.../algae.htm#blue Have you increased aeration? Have your fish show any of these symptom below. Red inflamed gills, lilac gills, pale gills? Gasping, or laboured breathing? Darting, erratic swimming? Swimming in circles? Turning upside down? Any excess mucas on fins, body, gills?

When i turned the lights on on Sunday, I saw all the cardinals darting around into the sand and glass, then sitting on the sand. I did the water change and then didnt really notice any darting. next day was when I saw them dead, the surviing cardinals were still edgy, but the angelfish and apistos were perfect. When i turned the lights off the cardinals were also then beginning to act normal, which is why i think its too bright/stressful for them?

there was no circling, gasping on any fish I saw. I dont think its overstocked, 3 angelfish, 4 apistps and 20 (now 12) cardinals, on a 4ft tank. I have an eheim external 2 small heaters and a U2 internal filter at the mo that im cycling. Cant see any excess mucas etc either.

in regards to the BGA, it says no fish eat it, because its toxic! Ive learnt that it comes with low nitrate. peopl had told me before its if there is low potassium nitrate, is there only one type of nitrate? (and this is what is in TPN+?)

Ive bought a new sunglo bulb, which is coming in the post to replace the power glo (and ill keep the aquaglo), maybe this will not be as bright.

today i left the lights off again, and all the fish are feeding fine. shall i do another blackout to kill the BGA?

Awww what a shame, your tank is amazing! I suffered a thick carpeting of BGA, i did a huge clean up, 80% WC and then a blackout for 3 days, totally black, no peeking! And then i uncovered at exactly 72 hours had a good clean up and another WC and so far it hasnt come back...there is a cause for BGA and you need to find whats causing it, my reason was over dosing on stress zyme, i stopped using so much of it and hey presto...its gone. Look into what causes BGA, try to fix that, then have a 3 day blackout after a clean up....as for the fishes passing

not sure, but wilder will help, good luck x

Thanks! yeah, i just dont know what the cause is. I think its low nitrate levels, but i thought my nitrate was actually high (although my test kit isnt easy to read! im glad yours worked, i did a blackout for 5 days, and there was still some left! I hate this stuff now...

 

[MrsM]

I hope you find out whats causing it, its a nightmare!

 

[WILDER]

Sorry for your losses.
I have never had to deal with blue, green algae so I don't have any advice to offer i'm afraid.

I just wondered if the plants were covered in algae and putting toxins into the water.
But I would of expected other fish to be affected if the toxins were the cause of death.

Keeping preforming water changes. Increase aeration. Another tank black out.
If any changes in the fish don't hesitate to post back on your thread.

 

[MrsM]

Are you having a big clean up of the algae before the blackout? And after youve had the blackout?

Do you use any bacterial products, ie...stress zyme?

How long do you have the lights on a day?



Oh and just to ease them back into the light after the blackout did you leave the lights off for a further 24 hours...this is suppose to ease shock of having total dark for days then....instant light ......just a thought.....

Ok just looked into it abit more, increase circulation in the tank...increase oxygen too....minimal feeding for a few days for the fish...

 

[Whitey_144]

Sorry for your losses.
I have never had to deal with blue, green algae so I don't have any advice to offer i'm afraid.

I just wondered if the plants were covered in algae and putting toxins into the water.
But I would of expected other fish to be affected if the toxins were the cause of death.

Keeping preforming water changes. Increase aeration. Another tank black out.
If any changes in the fish don't hesitate to post back on your thread.

thanks, yeah the plants were covered, but as bad this time, and the other fish have been fine. I thought the BGA dying may have done it too, but stil other fish are ok so im thinking its stress now.

ill do another blackout and see how it goes.

Are you having a big clean up of the algae before the blackout? And after youve had the blackout?

Do you use any bacterial products, ie...stress zyme?

How long do you have the lights on a day?



Oh and just to ease them back into the light after the blackout did you leave the lights off for a further 24 hours...this is suppose to ease shock of having total dark for days then....instant light ......just a thought.....

Ok just looked into it abit more, increase circulation in the tank...increase oxygen too....minimal feeding for a few days for the fish...

i only did a cleanup after the blackout, including a proper substrate clean (got a lot of muckout!), so its actually very clean now. yeah i think youre right, i shouldve let them have a day with just ambient light before i put the tank lights on. the last couple of days ive left the lights off, when my sunglo bulb comes ill swap it for the brighter powerglo and also remove the reflectors - might make it less bright.

i cant really increase the circulation, I have a spray bar one end as well as a U2 fluval internal. but the BGA still grows everywhere, even in the fastflow. oxygen, i have a air pump, but I could put in a second end to the line.

ive fed the fish, but they are eating it fine, and i never feed lots anyway. ill see how it goes with the new lights and another blackout and update all.

also akward because my 2 female apistos both have fry! so i dont like to do a blackout until they either die or get larger...but ill see how it goes, i think the non lights is helping them survive! (poor plants though!)

 

[WILDER]

How many gallons is your tank please?
The U2 Fluval internal filter only for a 10 to 24 gallon tank. Do you run any other filters in your tank.

 

[MrsM]

Cant you up root the plants and re-plant them in another tank temporaraly? If it does come to it and you have to blackout again, try to clean before and after the blackout good luck, and congrats on the fry

 

[Whitey_144]

How many gallons is your tank please?
The U2 Fluval internal filter only for a 10 to 24 gallon tank. Do you run any other filters in your tank.

I have an external eheim pro, the U2 is just in there while it is cycling for another tank. the tank is 240litres.

Cant you up root the plants and re-plant them in another tank temporaraly? If it does come to it and you have to blackout again, try to clean before and after the blackout

good luck, and congrats on the fry

I could, but my only other tank also has BGA! and no plants, im trying to fix the main one, then I can copy it on the 2nd one.

thanks, not sure if theyve still survived, ill find out tomorrow when i test out my new sunglo bulb...

 

[WILDER]

That's fine.

 

[MrsM]

How many gallons is your tank please?
The U2 Fluval internal filter only for a 10 to 24 gallon tank. Do you run any other filters in your tank.

I have an external eheim pro, the U2 is just in there while it is cycling for another tank. the tank is 240litres.

Cant you up root the plants and re-plant them in another tank temporaraly? If it does come to it and you have to blackout again, try to clean before and after the blackout

good luck, and congrats on the fry

I could, but my only other tank also has BGA! and no plants, im trying to fix the main one, then I can copy it on the 2nd one.

thanks, not sure if theyve still survived, ill find out tomorrow when i test out my new sunglo bulb...

fingers crossed for you