Plants Looking Bad After Substrate Change

[jaycat]

thanks, will do.

Jackie

 

[SuperColey1]

Hi guys,

Ok, I dose two capfuls per week as the instructions on the bottle, although I'm at the end of the bottle so Aaron I will change it.

Substrate was in for 5 months, therefore plants were in for 5 months also.
Really sorry but I have no idea what you mean by' seed the substrate.'

The tetra is in tights under the sand, about an inch all along the back of the tank, and the same along the front of the tank. The sand is again about an inch deep.

I change the water once a week roughly 10%-15%.

What's your advice?

Thanks for coming back, and your time in helping.

I have some photos on photobucket but can't seem to transfer them, if you know the easy way please let me know!

The picture tells a thousand words but I'm not sure what words they are. lol

Firstly I wouldn't have thought you would need to dose ferts at all with just those few plants there. The tetraComplete+fish food/waste should procide what they need. Obviously it isn't!!!.

Defficiency of Iron is what it looks like which puzzles me because TetraComplete has iron in it and if I remember rightly Nutrafin has a 'flash' on the bottle saying now with Iron or something similar!!!.

When you put the new substrate in what were the roots like? Were they long, if so how did you 'lay the roots'.

By this I mean that if you get a plant it is always best to trim the roots before planting. This encourages new root growth and also means that you can easily get the root'ball' nestled into the substrate. If they were long it would mean having to push long roots through the substrate.

My overall suggestion would be to add more plants and move onto a decent fertiliser like TPN+(The + is important here as there is a version without the + which is trace elements only). I guess by the pic you don't want to have the whole of the substrate planted so I would go for approx 50%. Buy 3 Tropica plants from P@H that are low light. Tropica potted plants will have loads of plants within each pot and therefore you can seperate them gently and plant them seperately. also they will have been used to TPN previously.

Low light plants that are commonly found in P@H would be Crypts in the main. Parva is small, Wendtii is medium. A Rotala Rotundifolia or Ludwigia Repens should be OK too and pruned correctly will bush out nicely.

I wouldn't bother with CO2 unless you want to. With the TPN+ I would add 1ml per day (get yourself a syringe.) Its always better to dose daily/every other day etc because then this leaves less time for possibility of defficiency in that if you dose once a week, the plants may consume all by day 4 and then have 3 days 'starving' dosing daily means that they will not starve at all.

Can I ask why the Tetra is in tights? I used Tetra in my previous setup and put the whole tub onto the bottom (spread equally) before topping with sand. No need to put things front/back etc and no need to seperate the Tetra from the sand. They will only mix if you are constantly moving the plants. You won't be doing this unless you want algae.

I would drop the lights down to 9-10 hours. you choose the time of day it starts and ends and put it on a timer so that it doesn't become 8 hours one day and 13 the next etc.

I have mine on 2pm-12pm same every day - consistency.

If you are worried about not water changing then use your ammonia test kit a couple of times a week just to reassure yourself. If you don't get readings of ammonia after a month then reduce the test to once a week etc until you start to believe that you don't need to water change so much.

Just as a pointer with the crypts initially they may look like they are dying but that is normal. They often tend to adapt to new water parameters badly and 'melt' before exploding back into life.

So in summary remove all the bad leaves from the swords you have. They will grow more. Get some more plants in there. Buy some TPN+ (Aquaessentials). Stop changing water unless your ammonia kit says you need to.

Lastly patience and perseverence will make your tank look a lot better.

Andy

 

[jaycat]

Hi, thanks so much for all your help and expertise.
Tetra was in tights on advise of lfs to avoid algae growth.
If I don't do weekly water changes, do I just leave the fish poo sitting on the bottom of the tank?
And how big would the monthly water change be?
Thanks again,
Jackie

 

[SuperColey1]

Tetra was in tights on advise of lfs to avoid algae growth.

Change your LFS. They have just told you bad information and may have made work for you!!! I would leave it in the tights now but next time you lay a substrate, pour the tub along the bottom and then put the sand on top.

If I don't do weekly water changes, do I just leave the fish poo sitting on the bottom of the tank?

YES leave it there. The filter should still do it's job and once there are more plants you won't see much of it.

And how big would the monthly water change be?

Test for ammonia every few days to reassure yourself. If you get a reading then do a 20% water change. If it is a higher reading then do a 20% water change and then again the next day until the filter learns to deal with it. the plants will also help.

Once it levels out to the magic 0 then start to tes weekly. If you have a reading do a 20% water change. If not leave it. Once you are happy with the weeklys do fortnightly test etc. It doesn't hurt to do tests to reassure yourself. It can give you a little confidence that you are doing what you have always been told was bad and yet still looking out for the fish. When it works you will think everytime you see someone say that water changes MUST be done that no, in certain circumstances (heavily planted tank) they don't necessarily need to be done.

So just keep checking and only do a water change when it is needed. Let the plants use the NP from the fish waste and leftover foods. Let the system keep the CO2 level it naturally exchanges at the surface. Sit back and enjoy your new plants growing (they may die first and the grow. so be ready to get damaged leaves out the minute you see them)

I personally would still add some TPN+ to the tank weekly (whatever the reccomendation is on the bottle) and Aquaessentials seems to be the only UK stockist.

Andy

 

[jaycat]

Hi Andy,

I've been away on a course for a few days, but off to get some plants tomorrow. Shame about the lfs, they have been there for generations, and usually give good advice, maybe they don't know re plants.
I'm getting fert you suggest too....so...wait for the updates!!

Thanks so much for taking the time to explain,

Jackie.

 

[SuperColey1]

The problem with many LFS is that although most of them are really good an knowledgable r.e. fish, a lot of them don't know much about plants or have very outdated views r.e. phosphates causing algae etc which is totally untrue.

You can still get stuff from them but I would always (with fish, plants or anything else) research before you buy.

It should mean that you don't buy things that are no good, know how to use the things you get etc.

With fish we always research so that we know if they are compatible with our tank size, companions and environment. The planted side is much more expensive and therefore research can save you caboodles and also help you not get frustrated with poor growth/algae etc. And stop people from buying monstrous growers for small tanks. lol

I would guess that your Swords will eventually climb into this category but you may as well keep them in there until your next substrate change as they have huge root structures.

Andy

 

[jaycat]

Hi,
funny you should mention re phosphate!!, that's exactely what they told me, I have a bag of phosphate remover in my filter as I still have algae growth. Didn't mention about amazons either, I researched re plants from Amazon area, but will now look into plants a bit further. Off to try to find some you suggested, or I'll buy on line. Have ordered fertilizer, noticed they sell plants tooso may get from there as PAH usually not too hot on plants here.

Jackie

 

[frozenbarb]

LOL nice try people

Sand is the worst substrate for planted tanks.

I don't see why you would switch from gravel to sand besides the looks.

Sand compacts the roots* duh Which cuts off oxygen to the roots.
Especially in swords where they are root plants. Notices how sand are so little that they literallly look like mud?

Sand is like mud there is no gaps its all stuck together like clement. Which would also accumilate all the fish waste and food to the top instead of the bottom" inside the gravel" where they break down and can be used as plant food.

leave the sand to SW. I recommend you change substrate if you want to continue growing swords and rooted plants to something that is nutrious to plants. Or since you have sand you can get alot of wood and turn it into a moss tank,

 

[aaronnorth]

I use sand in 1 of my planted tanks, i get as good growth as my large tank with swords and hairgrass. I would say gravel is better bacause the waste acts like a fert but you can still grow plants well enough with sand

 

[SuperColey1]

Sand is fine for plants. I always use sand as do many others. Some research needed for you but here are some starters

This was my first planted attempt just after planting (125Ltr-1WPG T8) so no knowledge, no experience etc. There are 3 Amazons in here (2 together in the centre and one hidden on the left (they are that small) along with a crypt front right

2 months later and a heavy prune plus a house move and you can see that they are still large. I was pulling approx 4 leaves a week off at this stage.

A further month later and it is starting to dominate again (still been pruning heavily)

This was the final pic after 7 months. We are down to 1 sword plant here because I got tired of pruning and it was also banished to the rear left corner

I think you'll find that sand or gravel works and it is indeed the aesthetics that people choose the substrate on. I prefer sand and I know not only from my own experiences but also of others that the plants are not bothered at all, nor are the fish by.....anaerobic pockets??? <---another myth as these are non existent in established planted tanks.

My next scape will actually have 1-3mm gravel in it because that is the look I have chosen. I shall no doubt return to sand on a future scape but that's the joy of planted tanks. You can alter the look quite easily and are not limited to 1 substrate etc.

Good luck Jaycat, sorry to fill up your thread with my pics. lol

Andy

 

[jaycat]

Hi Andy,

Went to p at h no sign of the plants you suggested nor at either of my lfs, so I was going to order from plants alive, online, or plant essential. Just waiting for ferts to arrive too.

Your tank looks great, how do you move a sword which has rooted? Mine although they died off have definately rooted very well. Have stripped alll the dead leaves off, they look better already. Just need a few more now!!

I'll post the pics when I plant the new ones then keep updating.

Thanks Jackie