Piscine T B

[The-Wolf]

PISCINE TB

Piscine tuberculosis (PTB) is not a form of tuberculosis, in reality it is caused by the bacteria Mycobacterium marinum which is the same genus as the bacteria that causes TB in humans (Mycobacterium tuberculosis).
There are currently over fifty species of bacteria in this genus that can cause diseases and many are able to live in soil, air and water.
PTB is transferable to humans but it is not life threatening to us, although it can be extremely painful. If you suspect your tank is host to the bacteria and you have open wounds on your hands/arms then be sensible and cover the wound(s), preferably with a waterproof dressing, and wash your hands in a strong anti bacterial soap afterwards.

Causes for PTB are considered to be poorly kept or dirty tanks with poor water quality, chronic stress from factors such as overcrowding, malnutrition, aggressive tank-mates or a diet of mainly live Tubifex Tubifex tubifex which can be carriers.

Diagnosis of PTB is often very difficult and unless you have access to a histology lab it will be doubtful that you can positively confirm your fish has PTB.
Symptoms are usually, lethargy, anorexia, fin and scale loss (fin rot), exopthalmia (pop-eye), skin inflammation and ulceration (sores, open wounds), edema (accumulation of fluid), peritonitis (inflammation of abdominal cavity) and nodules in muscles that may deform the fish. Rarely is a bent or kinked spine observed.

Treatment is considered by many to be futile; however some success has been achieved with Kanacyn (Kanamycin) + Vitamin B-6 for 30 days, provided they have not become emaciated.
Typically the advice is to euthanise the effected fish, raise the temperature to around 30 degrees centigrade and add salt to help stem the spread of this disease to other fish in the tank.
This advice is wrong as both adding salt and raising the temp provides a more than ideal environment for M.marinum, and other bacteria in the genus, to thrive in.
They are a slow growing bacteria, this means it will take anything from two weeks to several years for symptoms to develop.

I have only ever seen one case of true PTB and that was in some imported fish that were farmed and fed a diet almost exclusively on wild Tubifex tubifex
If you suspect that any of your fish has PTB, by all means take the necessary precautions (quarantine etc) but don’t always assume that is what you have. Plan for the worse but look for other diseases/illnesses that can cause similar symptoms and treat for those.
I often see people posting on forums about a bent spine and others racing to shout, you have PTB Euthanise the fish, strip the tank etc when in reality it is either a poor diet or a congenital deformity that, although looks horrible, is not life threatening and, IME, many fish can live a full life with a bent spine.
There is another serious problem that can cause a bent spine and that is internal parasites, again this is quite rare but not as rare as seeing true PTB.

So in conclusion
If you think that you have PTB you probably don’t but QT the fish and investigate further, look for other problems that fits the symptoms your fish are exhibiting it is most likely that is what your fish has and not PTB.
A good diagnosis site is fishdoc although aimed at the koi/pond keeper most of the diagnosis can be applied to tropical fish too.

References
http/www.aquarticles.com/articles/manage...fer_FishTB.html
http/www.fishyfarmacy.com/articles/mycobacteriosis.html
http/www.seahorse.com/FAMA_-_Freshwater_...September_2003/
http/www.level1diet.com/research/id/544512

the author retains all rights to the above article and it may only be copied in part or whole with his express permision,
however TFF members may copy and paste bits of the article into other areas of TFF freely.

EDITED for spelling error in title

 

[-germ-]

I'm confused now Wolfy just a little clarity on one thing if you might, I thought Mycobacterium Tuberculosis was the clade underwhich Mycobacterium Marinum comes? Making anything that comes from this clade definable as TB?
Or is it similar to common names; While the name is applicable, just use the bloody latin to be accurate.

 

[jollysue]

Would a uv get rid of the bacteria?

 

[lili70]

How contagious is it (between fishes) ?
Some say not very ....

Some say a symptom is bloated belly other say is wasting. Which one is more common in your opinion ?


Thank you.

 

[The-Wolf]

I'm confused now Wolfy just a little clarity on one thing if you might, I thought Mycobacterium Tuberculosis was the clade underwhich Mycobacterium Marinum comes? Making anything that comes from this clade definable as TB?
Or is it similar to common names; While the name is applicable, just use the bloody latin to be accurate.

from my research it is the same problem as with common names.
Mycobacterium is the genus and then there are 50+ species of Mycobacterium that cause disease,
many of which cause tuberculals (sp?) and thus referred to as tuberculosis.

Would a uv get rid of the bacteria?

I have seen no evidence to say yes but none that say no either; your guess is as good as mine on that one

How contagious is it (between fishes) ?
Some say a symptom is bloated belly other say is wasting. Which one is more common in your opinion ?

that, again is disputed depending on what/where you read.
Personally the more I read on Mycobacterium the more I'm inclined to believe that if a fish truly does have PTB
then it is only sympotomatic in that fish, the others will most likely be carriers but may or may not have the actual disease theirseves
until they show symptoms I'll assume they don't.

bloated or emaciated?
that really depends on what part of the fish is being effected
if it is the stomach or digestive tract that would lead to emaciation,
if it is say the kidneys then fluid build up would be seen.

the one case I've seen the fish was emaciated
so IME emaciation is more common.


I would like to take this time to point out
I'm just a hobbiest like you guys and have no formal training in fish disease etc
the information I'm giving here can be found on the net by anyone who cares to search for it,
in fact I urge you all to read as many links about piscine TB and Mycobacterium as you can find

 

[lili70]

I would like to take this time to point out
I'm just a hobbiest like you guys and have no formal training in fish disease etc
the information I'm giving here can be found on the net by anyone who cares to search for it,
in fact I urge you all to read as many links about piscine TB and Mycobacterium as you can find

Well, you have more experience than I do.
I am a educated person but it seems to me that opinion about what medication to use for each condition it's a little unclear. It's more like erro-trial .... try to see what works but for each fish carefull what you use .....
So, I appreciate your opinion.
L

PS: When I thought the rest of my fish are OK, two neons have lower lip swollen, like a little mol but same color like mouth ! What is that ?!