Ph Sky High!

[ardandy]

Ok, just about to start the cycle and thought I'd do some tests (using my API Test Kit).

ph levels straight out of the tap = 8.2

Rio 125 Tank
Planted
No Fish
Water put in on Saturday (no changes yet)
Plants put in Sat night
substrate in gravel
Water temp 26c

Measured the ph levels yesterday (Sunday) and it was about 7.4

Measured the ph levels today (Monday) and it was at 8.8+ (high range test)

I've only added 2 things to the water, Sera Aquatan when water went in on Sat morning and Sera florena today (mon) about 5 hours before doing the test.

EDIT: Some of the large plant leaves have brownish spots on them.

Ammonia and Nitrate levels are 0 as expected.

Can't think of anything else to tell you. Why would the ph be so high?

Here's a pic of the tank;

 

[waterdrop]

Here's a summary of pH ranges and A-Bac/N-Bac growth:

pH below 5.5 = possible danger of bacteria die-off
pH 5.5 to 6.2 = cycling process stalled or stopped
pH 6.3 to 7.0 = slow beneficial bacterial development
pH 7.1 to 7.9 = faster beneficial bacterial development
pH 8.0 to 8.4 = optimal/fastest bacterial development
pH 8.5 to 8.9 = too high, slower bacterial development
ph above 9.0 = possible danger of bacteria die-off

Above is some "boilerplate" I wrote referring to pH during fishless cycles. Just tossing it in in case its a help during the discussion of your question that will probably follow.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[ardandy]

Just curious as to why its so high after just 2 days!

 

[waterdrop]

Yup, understand you're curious but I don't know the answer...

It could be that there's something about your decorations that could raise pH. It could be that your water authority has treated the water such that it does this.

Its very unlikely your sera conditioner or the sera fertilizer or your gravel (which just looks like normal bag gravel from the LFS, right?) would be doing it.

Luckily its not so high that you'd need to do anything immediately. In fact, given that the cycle will eventually produce enough nitrates to push pH downwards, your high initial pH will probably work out well for the fishless cycle. Of course if its a result of your water authority and continues happening, it may be an issue for planning your stocking, but there's time to figure that out later.

I don't know, maybe I'm overlooking something and some of the other members will find something...

~~waterdrop~~

 

[ardandy]

I've just done a 20% water change and the ph is back to

High range test says 7.4
Low Range test says 7.6

The only thing I put in the new water was API Water Treatment Dechlorinator (forgotten its name).

If it spikes again I'll remove the decor and see if it happens once more. I've already filled my 20l jugs with some plain tap water so I'll test that tomorrow to verify.

 

[waterdrop]

Water out of the tap does change pH with standing.

The way to test the decorations is in a bucket where you've already got stable pH numbers and then you add the decoration and measure it over a week with daily pH tests.

A quick test of rocks and other objects is to drip vinegar on them and see if it fizzes.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[ardandy]

Could plants that have come from a high ph tank (in the lfs) 'bring over' a higher ph from the water contained in them?

 

[kcharley]

Do you know what your Kh readings are?

My tap water also has a high PH, 8.4 - 8.8. The Kh is only 3. Unless I do something to buffer the water, the PH drops to around 7 without CO2 and goes even lower with CO2. Without CO2 the drop takes a couple of weeks. I do have plants in the tank (I have read some inferences that plants use the Kh in the absence of CO2, but it wasn't a conclusive scientific statement.) (With CO2 the PH drop happens in a day.)

I'm guessing your Kh has got to be low or is being used up somehow to get those types of swings. I've added a small palmful of crushed coral in a nylon sock to my filter. That has stabilized my Kh at 3 and PH at 7.4 in my non-CO2 tanks.

HTH.

Greg

 

[KyzaSoze]

Nice tank... liking the ship

 

[ardandy]

Well I've tested frequently and since Sunday (ph about 7.2-7.4) the ph went back up again to the high 8's!

I've removed the ship and stuck it in a bucket of water to see if thats the culprit. If it goes up again I'll remove the columns rock thingy.

Grrrrrrr!

 

[waterdrop]

You could examine the white column feature. If the white is from paint you may be able to detect that. If its not, I suppose its possible its made of some substance like limestone or something. You could test it by dripping some vinegar on it at a place unlikely to be seen and see if it fizzes, which would indicate its likely to raise your pH. You could do this with your other tank objects and some of the gravel to check those too.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[ardandy]

Well 6 days after the last water change and the 'ship in a bucket's water hast changed from the tap ph.

The tank seems to have climbed about 0.2-0.4.

Is it possible that as this tank has only had 3 water changes since starting it that whatever was making the ph higher is getting more and more diluted with each change?

You could expect to think that the ship was causing it as with it removed it seems much more stable, yet the water in the bucket that the ship is sat in (pure tap water, no conditioner) hasn't budged?

Any thoughts?

 

[Marclau]

The back wall, is it made from foam? Not sure but many years ago, I read that certain fake looking walls had the potential to leak based on foam type and paints used.......
I was thinking to do this to my tank few years ago but ended up chickening out.........

 

[ardandy]

It is a type of foam but its made by Juwel (who make the tank) so I cant believe they'd release something that would do that?

My LFS cut it out and stuck it in for me (about 15 hours from doing to putting water in), could it be whatever they used?

 

[waterdrop]

Unfortunately in this hobby a manufacturer can have a great product that all we hobbyists highly recommend to each other but then have another product that we don't recommend at all! Likewise, a LFS can be just a "great ole place" where we've had wonderful service and advice at various times but then one of their employees will do something that's just dead wrong!

You just have to suspect everything. I have no idea how you're going to test the background and/or sealant. Perhaps there'd be some way to break off a bit that's hidden behind equipment or is just "extra edge flashing" or some such? Perhaps then subject that to the vinegar test or put in a small jar and test pH over time? I don't know, its going to be hard from what I can see...

~~waterdrop~~