Ph Gone Down

[DJ ArKaDaRkA]

i think this could be the reason ive seen huge ammonia and nirite spikes altho im not sure?

my ph for 2 weeks was 7.4

i checked a few times but it always stayed the same so gave up testing

now ive just checked and its gone down to 6.8

help

 

[DJ ArKaDaRkA]

could my diy co2 have caused this?

 

[Truck]

yes it will have, the CO2 contains an enzyme or something, im unsure , but CO2 will lower PH

 

[DJ ArKaDaRkA]

yes it will have, the CO2 contains an enzyme or something, im unsure , but CO2 will lower PH

what should i do keep the ph lower

or ditch the co2

or not have the co2 running as much?


my tap water stats-

high range is saying 7.4

low range 7.6


my tank stats-

high range 7.4

low range 6.8

 

[Truck]

its fine with that 'lower' PH

but if your fishless cycling remeber the nitrite will be more toxic in lower PH water

 

[DJ ArKaDaRkA]

its fine with that 'lower' PH

but if your fishless cycling remeber the nitrite will be more toxic in lower PH water

im doing a fish in cycle

well i thought it was cycled but ive just see some huge nirite and ammonia spikes and on top of everything im trying to keep my amazon swords alive

 

[Truck]

keeo the CO2 running, and leave the plants how they are, what is your lighting? how big is the tank?

 

[loachman]

putting CO2 into the water will generally lower pH.

CO2+water -> acid (specifically H2CO3)

pH fluctuations are normal during a cycle. And a fluctuation in pH of 0.2 per day is completely normal.

In order to give a more detailed answer to what is going on, knowing the following is helpful:
What exactly is the state of your tank?
What did you do?
How old is the tank setup?
What livestock (fish/plants)?
What is the rate of CO2 injection (bubbles/min or bubbles/sec)?
What do you have for surface/tank flow and agitation (aerator, filters breaking surface, powerheads, etc.?)

 

[DJ ArKaDaRkA]

putting CO2 into the water will generally lower pH.

CO2+water -> acid (specifically H2CO3)

pH fluctuations are normal during a cycle. And a fluctuation in pH of 0.2 per day is completely normal.

In order to give a more detailed answer to what is going on, knowing the following is helpful:
What exactly is the state of your tank?
What did you do?
How old is the tank setup?
What livestock (fish/plants)?
What is the rate of CO2 injection (bubbles/min or bubbles/sec)?
What do you have for surface/tank flow and agitation (aerator, filters breaking surface, powerheads, etc.?)

70l with 15w lighting
bubble wand and airpump
i have my filter set to break the surface at night when the airpums not on
i have 5 amazon sword
2 corys
1 rainbow shark
3 danios
1 gourmai

not sure about co2 bubbles per min its more or less bubbling the whole time tiny little bubbles threw a airstone its a coke bottle jobbie

its about a month old thought it was cycled but i think ive caused a mini cycle

 

[waterdrop]

I think loachman should still analyze your situation given the good questions but I'll throw in some comments on some of it:

At one month, its extremely likely a fish-in cycle is only barely finished or not really finished, so your situation is not unexpected. Its quite difficult to tell if a fish-in cycle has really finished although our standard thing to say is to go for two complete days without changing any water and observe zero ammonia and nitrites on morning and evening tests both those days. (Did you pass that test?)

You are not overstocked for that tank and perhaps its not even a terrible load for a fish-in cycle, although its too many fish to be an ideal one, so again, that would be one more factor leading us to expect potential problems with the fish-in cycle.

At 70L/18.5G with a 15watt light, you are a little below 1 watt per gallon (.81 w/g) but its a small tank so you may have just enough light to do an ok job of "low-light" technique for your plants (but the planted guys could analyze that better of course.) Unfortunately, swordplants are notorious for being nutrient hogs: I've read they are "very greedy" for fertilizers. This means it may be very easy to shortchange them on N, P, K or some traces, not to mention CO2. Its often mentioned that these plants like root tabs more than any other plant but that's just something I've read, along with reading that this plant is one of the ones that does do a fair amount of root-uptake compared to others. One more tip: I think even if you lose leaves and prune them, the roots/crown will often come back and give you more leaves, so give it some patience. (AN,DS or SC will now come along from planted and have a laugh at me giving plant info .. I'm mostly good a killing plants, lol)

Have we ruled out that the filter on this tank is not too small for the job? (Don't let that question worry you, its by far most likely that your cycle is just not finished up quite yet!)

~~waterdrop~~

 

[OldMan47]

Afraid the 15W over 15 gallons does not add up to 1WPG in the traditional way of judging light. Small tanks take higher light wattage to have the same effects. It is a volume to surface area effect. You are at very low light levels and may not see much benefit from the CO2 although it can't hurt the plants. The CO2 does form carbonic acid in the water, the same stuff that gives you bubbles in a soda. At the optimum levels for a plant, the CO2 will drop your pH a whole number, like from 7.6 to 6.6 for instance. Most people do not regard the pH change caused by CO2 as affecting the fish but I have no idea how it might affect the bacterial colonies. The low pH will also make any ammonia take on the less poisonous form so that part will work out for the fish while you get things sorted.
Unlike WD I don't usually manage to kill my plants but I am far from expert with them. I am also hoping one of them shows up to help.

 

[waterdrop]

Thank you for rescuing me OM47! I was indeed hoping that you or one of the regulars would notice that and fill in about the wattage to tank relationship not being linear and I was too lazy to look it up. Its too bad for DJ that it curves down that way, as it means that ideally some sort of change in lighting is needed to increase the wattage of light hitting the plants. DJ, you want it to be between 1 and 2 watts, probably closer to 2 watts. In my own case I have one of those tank tops where it came as an articulated glass lid with just a light "strip" , 15 watts, straddling the tank sides. I was able to simply buy a second strip, another 15 watts to total 30, and set it next to the first one.

A couple' more interesting things to continue the conversation with OM47.. I too have read what you say: "Most people do not regard the pH change caused by CO2 as affecting the fish but I have no idea how it might affect the bacterial colonies." I remember find that quite striking and mentally I hooked it up with a portion, I believe, of a thread involving bignose in science section I think which talked about how pH swings supposedly hurting fish was really about rapid hardness changes, that that was really the environmental aspect underlying the observations. It makes sense that because fish need to carefully regulate their osmotic pressure, hardness is a big deal, something they might have a somewhat fixed system for.. you think I'm remembering this correctly?

Also, , let me say I'm sometimes prone to exaggeration and my statement about killing plants was really just me expressing frustration right now about trying hard to "learn" plants better and having experienced some "melted" leaves from Flourish Excel carbon dosing, but actually the crowns are sprouting new leaves, so technically I've not killed everything I've touched in reality It (exaggeration) is not the sort of expression that comes across well in written communication, at least if you're a bad writer, that's for sure! I can relate to DJ, trying to start figuring out plants (which seem harder than fish!) overlapping with cycling.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[DJ ArKaDaRkA]

Thank you for rescuing me OM47! I was indeed hoping that you or one of the regulars would notice that and fill in about the wattage to tank relationship not being linear and I was too lazy to look it up. Its too bad for DJ that it curves down that way, as it means that ideally some sort of change in lighting is needed to increase the wattage of light hitting the plants. DJ, you want it to be between 1 and 2 watts, probably closer to 2 watts. In my own case I have one of those tank tops where it came as an articulated glass lid with just a light "strip" , 15 watts, straddling the tank sides. I was able to simply buy a second strip, another 15 watts to total 30, and set it next to the first one.

A couple' more interesting things to continue the conversation with OM47.. I too have read what you say: "Most people do not regard the pH change caused by CO2 as affecting the fish but I have no idea how it might affect the bacterial colonies." I remember find that quite striking and mentally I hooked it up with a portion, I believe, of a thread involving bignose in science section I think which talked about how pH swings supposedly hurting fish was really about rapid hardness changes, that that was really the environmental aspect underlying the observations. It makes sense that because fish need to carefully regulate their osmotic pressure, hardness is a big deal, something they might have a somewhat fixed system for.. you think I'm remembering this correctly?

Also, , let me say I'm sometimes prone to exaggeration and my statement about killing plants was really just me expressing frustration right now about trying hard to "learn" plants better and having experienced some "melted" leaves from Flourish Excel carbon dosing, but actually the crowns are sprouting new leaves, so technically I've not killed everything I've touched in reality It (exaggeration) is not the sort of expression that comes across well in written communication, at least if you're a bad writer, that's for sure! I can relate to DJ, trying to start figuring out plants (which seem harder than fish!) overlapping with cycling.

~~waterdrop~~

that sort of went over my head

ive done some googleing and from what ive read amazon sword can be grown and normally is out of water and its just loosing its leaves to grow submerged leaves?

im also going to get root tabs

im just trying to keep the nirite at bay at the moment im seeing so messy swings and doing 3 waterchanges a day

without a doubt i will be doing a fishless cycle when i get my new tank

Thank you for rescuing me OM47! I was indeed hoping that you or one of the regulars would notice that and fill in about the wattage to tank relationship not being linear and I was too lazy to look it up. Its too bad for DJ that it curves down that way, as it means that ideally some sort of change in lighting is needed to increase the wattage of light hitting the plants. DJ, you want it to be between 1 and 2 watts, probably closer to 2 watts. In my own case I have one of those tank tops where it came as an articulated glass lid with just a light "strip" , 15 watts, straddling the tank sides. I was able to simply buy a second strip, another 15 watts to total 30, and set it next to the first one.

A couple' more interesting things to continue the conversation with OM47.. I too have read what you say: "Most people do not regard the pH change caused by CO2 as affecting the fish but I have no idea how it might affect the bacterial colonies." I remember find that quite striking and mentally I hooked it up with a portion, I believe, of a thread involving bignose in science section I think which talked about how pH swings supposedly hurting fish was really about rapid hardness changes, that that was really the environmental aspect underlying the observations. It makes sense that because fish need to carefully regulate their osmotic pressure, hardness is a big deal, something they might have a somewhat fixed system for.. you think I'm remembering this correctly?

Also, , let me say I'm sometimes prone to exaggeration and my statement about killing plants was really just me expressing frustration right now about trying hard to "learn" plants better and having experienced some "melted" leaves from Flourish Excel carbon dosing, but actually the crowns are sprouting new leaves, so technically I've not killed everything I've touched in reality It (exaggeration) is not the sort of expression that comes across well in written communication, at least if you're a bad writer, that's for sure! I can relate to DJ, trying to start figuring out plants (which seem harder than fish!) overlapping with cycling.

~~waterdrop~~

that sort of went over my head

ive done some googleing and from what ive read amazon sword can be grown and normally is out of water and its just loosing its leaves to grow submerged leaves?

im also going to get root tabs

im just trying to keep the nirite at bay at the moment im seeing so messy swings and doing 3 waterchanges a day

without a doubt i will be doing a fishless cycle when i get my new tank

oh and i did a search and a few years ago someone did a post with the same tank as me adding another 15w light system so will be going down that route i think

 

[DJ ArKaDaRkA]

Went home at lunch ammonia and nirite was way too high only did a 50% WC at 8 this morning so i did another had to check 5 min later as i needed to get back from work still too high, no amount of waterchanges will do anything for any amount of time i just feel like tanking all the fish back and giving up but im not going to this is all because i want real plants i might just rip them out and go with fake ones

 

[loachman]

I'm guessing the low pH is caused by the still cycling tank and the relatively low WPG you're using. At low lighting (~1 WPG), you really don't need to inject CO2. Especially at a high rate. The plants just don't use it up that fast since the light level is more rate limiting.

I would say that those 2 factors are contributing to the low pH. It is not a huge issue though, as your current pH is fine for your fish. You may want to check the pH before lights out, and after they come back on in the morning to see what the daily swing is. It should not be too high, but a couple tenths is fine.

If you just added fish or changed things, you can cause a mini cycle. It can happen regardless of how old the tank is. It's not abnormal. Just monitor the ammonia and nitrate levels and do water changes as necessary to keep them in check.