Ph Disaster

[koinukun]

Well I think my cycle is back to square one again now.
My pH keeps dropping no matter how many water changes I do! I thought it was my CO2 for my plants. They were doing fine before I put it in so I got rid of that but it still falls from 7 (the pH of my tap water) to 6 or below in about 24 hours. Any ammonia I put in doesn't get processed anymore so I'm guessing the 3 weeks of cycling have been ruined! And I had just got my big nitrite spike gone overnight when this all started!

I've already changed about 90% of the water in the tank twice, as well as 50% water changes for about 3 days now but still nothing. I've cleaned the filter media in dechlorinated water, vacuumed the gravel and removed a sandstone rock with I was unsure about. I already have a piece of lava rock in there with does nothing to stop the pH fall.

I don't know what to do anymore. With the amount and size of water changes I've been doing to keep the pH constant I may as well be doing a fish-in cycle

I'm at a complete standstill and would really appreciate any help or advise anyone could give me.

(I don't have a gH/kH test kit and can't get my hand on one any time soon)

thanks!

koinukun~

 

[bow1]

Know what your going through mate. The same happend to my fishless cycle with the big ph drop every other day. Did slow things down but managed to cycle and ph stable now fish are in. I think it has to do with the large amount of ammonia, and I actually cut back on mine the last few days and it seemed to kick start things again. Then two days before first fish went in I put 4ppm ammonia in each day and it was processing in 12h along with nitrite 12hours too. Was glad to get fish in as I was getting through Declor like nobodys buisiness with all water changes. Good luck.

 

[rdd1952]

There are a couple things you can do to help stablize your pH. You can add a small amount of crushed coral to your filter or even hang it in the tank in a filter pack. That will help add some buffering capacity to the water. You can also add a piece of tufa rock which will do the same thing. If you use the coral, add it slowly as it doesn't take a lot to make a difference. A teaspoonful in a 30 gallon tank (don't know what size yours is) is usually enough. It's not really necessary for you to buy a GH & KH kit if you don't want to, You can take a sample of your tap water to the LFS to test for you. Just make sure they tell you the number water than that it's soft/hard, etc.

 

[Matt_northants]

You could try adding a teaspoon of bicarbonante of soda. Leave for 15mins and then test pH. Keep adding in small quantities till the pH is at the correct level.

 

[koinukun]

I'm glad to hear that it isn't the end of the world!

Do you know where I could go to get some coral to put into the filter? Would it be something you get from the LFS, I'd only need a tiny bit then?

thanks!

koinukun~

 

[rabbut]

Coral is from the LFS

Bicarbonate of soda is better known as baking powder, and I don't know anyone that doesn't have the stuff lying arround. Will do the same job as coral, but usualy works out cheaper over the lenght of time it's used for. Nitrate is acidic, so this is probibly the caurse of the pH crash. Once fish are in, there should not be as much nitrate being produced, so it should stay stable without being touched. I had the same problem as you when I was cycling. Once you know how, the problem is easily resolved.

HTH
Rabbut

 

[rdd1952]

The biggest problem with baking soda is that you will have to add it on a regular basis where as crushed coral you put in once and you are done with it.

 

[rabbut]

In my experience, the baking soda is only needed for the fishless cycle in most cases. I had to use it to hold a stable pH whle cycling my tank, but haven't needed it cince

All the best
Rabbut

 

[Matt_northants]

Baking powder doesnt contain bicarbonate of soda it contains Rice Flour, Raising Agents, Disodium Diphosphate, Sodium Hydrogen Carbonate. They are right next down to each other though in the Homebaking Aisle of the supermarket.

Coral versus Bicarbonate of Soda? Price!!! Crushed coral is quite expensive compared to bicarbonate of soda. Also Bicarb doesnt take up any valuable room in your filter

 

[koinukun]

Invaluable help as always guys!

I went out and got some bi-carb soda so I'll keep you posted on how everything turns out!

Thanks again!

koinukun~

 

[rdd1952]

Baking powder doesnt contain bicarbonate of soda it contains Rice Flour, Raising Agents, Disodium Diphosphate, Sodium Hydrogen Carbonate. They are right next down to each other though in the Homebaking Aisle of the supermarket.

Coral versus Bicarbonate of Soda? Price!!! Crushed coral is quite expensive compared to bicarbonate of soda. Also Bicarb doesnt take up any valuable room in your filter

Did not mean baking powder but baking soda which is the more common name for bicarb of soda. As for the price difference, considering you only need one or maybe two teaspoonfuls, most LFSs will give you that much from one of their open bags. I just simply prefer something that does not have to be added back after every water change but either one will work. One is just more permenant that the other.

 

[backtotropical]

Baking powder doesnt contain bicarbonate of soda it contains Rice Flour, Raising Agents, Disodium Diphosphate, Sodium Hydrogen Carbonate. They are right next down to each other though in the Homebaking Aisle of the supermarket.

Coral versus Bicarbonate of Soda? Price!!! Crushed coral is quite expensive compared to bicarbonate of soda. Also Bicarb doesnt take up any valuable room in your filter

Did not mean baking powder but baking soda which is the more common name for bicarb of soda. As for the price difference, considering you only need one or maybe two teaspoonfuls, most LFSs will give you that much from one of their open bags. I just simply prefer something that does not have to be added back after every water change but either one will work. One is just more permenant that the other.

I'm with RDD on this. Adding Bicarb of Soda has to be done on a regular basis to have the desired effect and prevent any large swings in water parameters. Adding coral sand / gravel however, has the same effect and only has to added as a one off. The coral would provide a more stable tank environment. This is the same reason i advise people not to use PH Up or PH Down.

Also Matt, i would not advise to put coral gravel / sand in the filter as it can compact quite quickly and restrict water flow. A much better idea is to mix a handful into the existing substrate.

Koinukun, i would think twice before adding Bicarb of Soda to your tank, because when you add it once, you are committing yourself to adding it on a regular basis to keep the parameters stable.

HTH

BTT

 

[rdd1952]

Adding the crushed coral to the substrate only works with gravel. If you have sand, you basically have to leave in to. Burying it under the sand will severely negate it's effect. I hae black substrate and tried just dropping it in he tank but it looked terrble on the black sand and I had to take it out. Another option besides putting it in the filter is to put it in a small filter pack and hang it in the tank. But as far as putting it in the filter, I have done that before with crushed coral with no problems at all. It's basically crushed shells and won't clump or compact together. I just mixed it in with the Matrix media that I use.

 

[koinukun]

I'll try to get some coral then as it seems more stable from what you guys say.

If I can't get my hands on any, could I just get some seashells, like oysters and crush them up and put them in the filter with my ceramic noodles? Then I could have oysters for lunch AND fix my pH troubles at the same time, or wouldn't shells work?

koinukun~

 

[Matt_northants]

[Did not mean baking powder but baking soda which is the more common name for bicarb of soda. As for the price difference, considering you only need one or maybe two teaspoonfuls, most LFSs will give you that much from one of their open bags. I just simply prefer something that does not have to be added back after every water change but either one will work. One is just more permenant that the other.

But its only to add during his cycle to stop his pH from crashing. As for being more permenant they both do exactly the same thing ie increasing KH. Crushed coral adds Calcim Carbonate whilst Bicarb adds Sodium Bicarbonate. If you do a water change with low KH water it will reduce the buffering capacity of both by the same amount.