Panda cats with ICH?

DaleWebb

New Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2023
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
Location
Utah, United States
75 gallon tank. Been up for years. No new introductions. Planted with 10 hours of light per day.
Lost an old panda cat the other day. Thought he had ich. Another old panda cat is listless and ill. Covered with white spots. Cannot see white spots on any other fish: discus, angels, neons, and other, younger panda cats. When panda cats get old (probably a couple of years), do they become susceptible to things like ich? Sorry, lousy photo.
Have a blue-eyed lemon pleco whose skin has bright red patches. Any clues? Again, he's old.
 

Attachments

  • Catfish.jpg
    Catfish.jpg
    283.9 KB · Views: 32
Need a few more pictures if possible, including some of the pleco with red patches.

It could be white spot or excess mucous caused by poor water quality.
The fish's eye looks cloudy and that is normally poor water quality, a dirty tank and dirty filter.

Have you added anything to the tank in the 2 weeks before this started?

How long have they had the spots for?
Have the spots disappeared after a few days and popped up a few days after that?

What's the water temperature?
You can treat white spot by raising the water temperature to 30C (86F) and keeping it there for 2 weeks, or at least 1 week after all the white dots have gone. Before raising the temperature, do a 80% water change and gravel clean the substrate. Clean the filter. Increase aeration/ surface turbulence.
If the temp is already at 30C due to the discus, it is unlikely to be white spot.
 
Just now changed water, cleaned the external filter, and raised the temperature to 80°F.

Nothing added for a while.

We'll see how it goes.

Thanks.
 
Agree with Colin. You have another significant issue here, non-compatibility of fish species. Corydoras panda cannot be kept with discus, they have very different temperature requirements if you want them to be healthy. Discus must have it warm, temperature range is 26-30C/79-86F. No Corydoras species can be kept this warm regardless, but C. panda is even more harmed. This species occurs in the Rio Aquas and Rio Amarillas (tributary of Rio Pachitea), Rio Ucayali system, upper Amazon in Peru. Water flow is somewhat faster in these mountain streams, with cooler temperatures. A range of 20-26C/70-79F is recommended by the reliable authorities. I am not saying this caused ich, if it is ich, but it will weaken the fish seriously and cause stress because temperature drives a fish's metabolism. And stress is the reason fish succumb to ich. There is no problem with a 2-week treatment at 30C/86F for ich, if they have ich, but not long-term.
 
You could also try putting some aquarium salts in the tank wich would help cure the ich, add one level tablespoon of aquarium salts per 5 gallons of water. Try this along with what everyone else said
 
I am not so sure you have ich. Ich looks like salt crystals on a fish not like white blobs.

Cory species are found in a variety of water temperatures. Corydoras (lineage 9) Sterbai can handle 82.4F as can a few others: Corydoras amapaensis, Corydoras (lineage 8 sub-clade 1) splendens and Corydoras (lineage 9) oiapoquensis.

I kept sterbai with discus and did have them a tad above 82.4.

Usually, heat for Ich needs to be warmer. If one uses salt not only does the tamp need to be higher than 80, as noted, but also most corys do not do well with salt. However, if one is treating ich is may be necessary for the fish to be both too warm and in to high a salinity to achieve the cure. However, treatment is normally a shorter term proposition and most fish can deal with the discomfort for a short time. This is a lot different than living in those conditions.

Personally, I prefer to use the more traditional medications for treating ich- "Most are made with formaldehyde, malachite green, or copper sulfate, or a combination of these ingredients." My preference is a mix of the first two ingredients. Consider Hikari Ich-X https://www.hikariusa.com/water_quality_folder/ich_x.html I also keep on hand Flubendazole which is also effective against Ich, velvet and similar parasitic attackers including internal ones. Flubenndazole is effective when put into the water.

Flubendazole is useful for controlling intestinal parasites, especially most of the protozoa, some nematodes and gill flukes. Flubendazole is active through adsorption into the fish’s skin and gills. The drug does not have to be eaten to be effective. This makes the drug useful for treating fishes which have quit eating due to irritation from infection of the throat and gut.
from https://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/FlubendazoleTreatment.pdf

That said, many hobbyists prefer the elevated heat and salt method. Ich has a life cycle and most meds only kill it in in or two stages of that cycle. Heat acellerates that cycle making it possible to eliminate ich faster.
 
I feel I must make something clear. Most of my knowledge which is limited primarily to fish species and habitats in South America is not my opinion but has been garnered from the expert authorities. I listen to these people because they have spent their adult life working with fish. The issue of which Corydoras could be kept with discus came up on Corydoras World which Ian owns and administers, and the answer from Ian was absolutely none. No species of Corydoras should be maintained long-term at or above 80F/27C, Temporary increases to temperatures higher than this are OK, because they are not permanent.

Temperature drives the fish's metabolism, and the cories will work harder and this has various ramifications I do not intend getting into. If anyone want to dispute this fact, please do it with Ian Fuller. Ian works with other biologists like Hans Evers, Marcello Briitto, Luiz Tencatt, Leandro Sousa, --all of whom are at the height of knowledge concerning the Corydoradinae.

On the question of ich, I had what I assumed was a stubborn case, fish were flashing but no spots appeared externally. I went to my friend Neale Monks, and after questioning me on the issue he suggest ich, and recommended temperature of 86F/30C for two weeks. No medications. If this was ineffective, salt would be the next treatment. I didn't have to do that, the flashing went away durig the first week and never returned during the following years. I learn from these people, and I am willing to share this knowledge. I did not think these things up.

I have terminal cancer (which I am winning over so far) and I follow my oncologist because he has the training and knowledge. I carry that process over to my fish.
 
I have been fortunate to have met Ian at CatCon some years back. I had enough time to shake his hand and to thank him for sharing all his cory knowledge with hobbyists. I have met and talked with Hans on several occasions and Ingo Seidel a few times as well. And last Oct. I met and talked with Leandro at CatCon. I consider Hans, Ingo and Leandro to be some of the most knowledgeable people in the world when it comes to the the plecos I keep and breed. These opportunities were all at weekend fish events where the above folks were either speakers or just attendees. I have been very lucky to meet, and usually talk with, people whose tanks I consider myself barely qualified to clean.

Ian is a member on Planetcatfish and there are a number of excellent threads and posts by him. I am pretty sure he and Jools communicate regularly. If any information on PC about corys were not accurate, I think Ian would have brought it to Jools' attention.

Here are two posts on PC by Ian the first is from 2011 and the second from 2009. So it is entirely possible he revised his thinking since then. I am not registered on his site. I am too cheap to be a paying member since I keep corys mostly for my enjoyment and not to spawn. I have spawned a few in years past and currently am working with some black schultzei. But I keep them at 24-25C (75-77F) with a target of 76F.

The first thread is titled Hatching problems with C. gossei and Ian's post reports keeping his at 28C i.e. 82.4F.
https://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=32327&p=213836&hilit=gossei#p213836

The second thread is titled 85f cory? And he lists a few corys which can be kept in warmer water,
https://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=25368&p=149251&hilit=gossei#p149251

In the 2nd thread in another post by Frank, aka coyologist, notes that he keeps his sterbai with his discus at 86F. I bought my Budrovcan line L236 plecos from Eric B. Eric who wanted me to meet him at Frank's home in NJ. Eric was driving there to pick up Ian. The idea of being in the same room with three of the worlds most expert breeders of corys almost made me jump out of my chair. Unfortunately, Eric then explained that he and Ian would have to leave almost immediately as they had scheduled a meeting with somebody on their way back to Eric's home where Ian would be staying. Since I would not have the chance to pick up an amazing amount of cory info at Frank's, I arranged to meet Eric along the way there as it shortened my round trip time by 2 hours. *sigh*

I have not kept discus in many years now. When I did I had sterbai with mine for a while. But the longest term catfish co-habitants with the discus were a couple of zebra plecos which I had to park for a few years. The discus tank was the only one I had warm enough for the zebras.

As for treating Ich, there are actually strains which can live at 90F though most cannot. One reason I prefer using the meds is that they should work pretty fast especially in an elevated temp. Once done they can quickly be removed close to 100% by doing a water change and then adding carbon to ones filter. Salt can only be removed by water changes. So plants and fish which are less tolerant of salt may not fare so well.

The downside to using meds is that some fish do not handle them well, even for a short duration.

You would not believe how many things have been tried to defeat Ich. A Review Article on he subject:

Picon-Camacho, S.M., Marcos-Lopez, M., Bron, J.E. and Shinn, A.P., 2012. An assessment of the use of drug and non-drug interventions in the treatment of Ichthyophthirius multifiliis Fouquet, 1876, a protozoan parasite of freshwater fish. Parasitology, 139(2), pp.149-190.
(Received 17 June 2011; revised 12 September 2011; accepted 16 September 2011; first published online 14 November 2011 by Cambridge University Press)

S U MM A RY
Infection by the ciliate protozoan Ichthyophthirius multifiliis Fouquet, 1876 causes significant economic losses in freshwater
aquaculture worldwide. Following the ban on the use of malachite green for treating food fish, there has been extensive
research aimed at identifying suitable replacements. In this paper we critically assess drug and non-drug interventions,
which have been tested for use or have been employed against this parasite and evaluate possibilities for their application in
farm systems. Current treatments include the administration of formaldehyde, sodium chloride (salt), copper sulphate and
potassium permanganate. However, purportedly more environmentally friendly drugs such as humic acid, potassium
ferrate (VI), bronopol and the peracetic acid-based products have recently been tested and represent promising alternatives.
Further investigation, is required to optimize the treatments and to establish precise protocols in order to minimize the
quantity of drug employed whilst ensuring the most efficacious performance. At the same time, there needs to be a greater
emphasis placed on the non-drug aspects of management strategies, including the use of non-chemical interventions
focusing on the removal of free-swimming stages and tomocysts of I. multifiliis from farm culture systems. Use of such
strategies provides the hope of more environmentally friendly alternatives for the control of I. multifiliis infections.
Full paper --> http://dspace.stir.ac.uk/bitstream/1893/10147/1/Picon Camacho et al Parasitology Ich chemo review.pdf
 
A few days after doing the above, my water is milky. Fish don't seem to mind. Added some Seachem Pristine as that has worked before. Not helping. Water has never been cloudy before.
 
Don't add chemicals to clear cloudy water. Just do a big water change and gravel clean the substrate.
 

Most reactions

trending

Members online

Back
Top