Options Other Than Reverse Osmosis

[heatherbibby]

What can you do to soften water other than reverse osmosis?

Is using rain water a option?


hev..

 

[xxBarneyxx]

Going by the title of your other post I'm gussing this is for discus?

If so I would personally only use RO water. You could use rain water but you can never know for sure exactly what is in it. If you are going to spend £30+ per fish you might as well shell out £50 for a decent RO unit.

 

[raptorrex]

What can you do to soften water other than reverse osmosis?

Is using rain water a option?


hev..

a simple britta filter will effectivly soften the water. not sure its any good for discus though.

 

[shroob]

I read (in PFK) that water purifers (like Britta) use silver something or other to 'clean' the water, which is deadly to fish, so I wouldn' go down that road.
Peat is often used to soften water I think.

 

[xxBarneyxx]

Yep you can either pre-filter the water through peat before putting it in the tank or use it in the tanks filter (never tried this myself). The problem with this is that I dont think it is very easy to get the water to one stable level.

The reason I would use RO water is that you know it will always be the same. You make your RO water, add something like "RO-Safe" (or just "cutting" it with tap water) to bring the PH/KH to exactly the right level and you dont have to worry about having a sudden PH crash or introducing something like pesticides from rain water.

 

[chrisdoesntmiss]

I used to use rain water for my discus, the oddest problem i ever had was that when you wanted it to rain, it never did.

 

[raptorrex]

I read (in PFK) that water purifers (like Britta) use silver something or other to 'clean' the water, which is deadly to fish, so I wouldn' go down that road.
Peat is often used to soften water I think.

lol silver from a britta deadly to fish? piffle!!!!!!!!!!!!!! simply more "snake oil" to keep you buying real fish keeping items.

Britta do have a silver content, it is simply an anti bacterial agent. the levels allowed for human consumption, would mean that it could do no harm to fish. it is unlikely that the silver would be allowed to "wash out" of the filter, as that would be kinda counter productive. don't you think? though if there is any scientific evidence of this, i would be greatful of a link to it.

The reason I would use RO water is that you know it will always be the same. You make your RO water, add something like "RO-Safe" (or just "cutting" it with tap water) to bring the PH/KH to exactly the right level and you dont have to worry about having a sudden PH crash or introducing something like pesticides from rain water.

however pure RO will cause massive swings in the peramiters of your water, as it is devoid of any buffering ability. RO can be used to sort problems like this. but it is like opening peanuts with a sledgehammer, effective, but adding more problems than it solves. making it expensive and vastly wasteful.

 

[shroob]

I'm just saying what I read in a PFK magazine, when someone wrote in asking if he could use one to get soft water, the expert advised against it. I will see if I can find the magazine and try and quote it.

EDIT: I have found it, PFK issue 11/november 2002, its on page 47, on the right hand side titled 'Great to drink but not for fish'.

Q: Would an ordinary Britta tapwater filter produce softened and acidified water suitable for keeping fish? Such a filter changes my hard and alkaline London water form pH8.0 to pH7.2 and reduced general harness from 17 GH to 3GH.

A: These domestic water filters are not suitable for aquarium use. Some use silver salts to kill bateria, as well as resins that modify the ionic content, and thse can harm many aquatic animals. If your tapater is no longer ideal for your fishes, reduce the ionic content with RO water or if you want a cheaper solution just boil the water and store it over a little peat to acidify it.

The names have been left out, as I don't know if they would like to be mentioned. And I have but in bold what I feel is the main jist of the answer.

 

[Meds081603]

I am pretty sure the brita filters are fine but don't bank on it. I know most large scale commercial or residential water softeners do use salt to soften the water. Those are whole house types of filters, I'd stay away from them for sure.

 

[shroob]

Britta themselves don't recommend using them without consulting an expert:
# Can I use filtered water for tropical fish?
Due to the sensitivity of many tropical fish to even the smallest changes in water quality or conditions, such as temperature and pH, as BRITA advises consumers not to use filtered water for tropical fish without consulting a specialist.

Once again I have no knowledge whether its safe to use, im just posting stuff I find, if I find a conclusive answer I will let you know.

 

[xxBarneyxx]

however pure RO will cause massive swings in the peramiters of your water, as it is devoid of any buffering ability. RO can be used to sort problems like this. but it is like opening peanuts with a sledgehammer, effective, but adding more problems than it solves. making it expensive and vastly wasteful.

Yeah pure RO water should never be used which is why I said to use something like "RO safe" to buffer the water and bring the PH to the right level or to mix it back with tap water to do the same thing.

Its only my opinion but if you are going to go to the expense of keeping Discus then £50 for an RO unit is not really a big deal.

 

[raptorrex]

Britta themselves don't recommend using them without consulting an expert:
# Can I use filtered water for tropical fish?
Due to the sensitivity of many tropical fish to even the smallest changes in water quality or conditions, such as temperature and pH, as BRITA advises consumers not to use filtered water for tropical fish without consulting a specialist.

Once again I have no knowledge whether its safe to use, im just posting stuff I find, if I find a conclusive answer I will let you know.

yes i am aware of this. but if you read the comment you can see, they are just covering their backs. none of the things mentioned above, will have any more effect than if you used carbon in your filter. the only problem we as fishkeepers have with carbon, is chemical leaching. the same is true of a britta filter. if you look at the water recovered from a britta, you will find no silver, well any measurable amount anyway. and there is far more good stuff in britta water than you will find in RO water, which is potentially far more dangerous than any form of carbon filtering. requiring additions of salts minerals, and everything else the membrane removes, just to get back to where you were if you had used a Britta in the first place.

i repeat there is no potential of silver getting into the filtered water, which i believe was your original comment!

though expensive, water treated this way, especially when it is being added to a live tank, is perfectly safe. and vastly preferable to using RO and the water is not acidic, like RO. it even leaves the calcium in the water. its softening effect being restricted to removing lime deposits from the water.

i am not saying this is the best way to solve hardness problems. but it is better than RO. however provably incorrect comments like " silver in brittas is deadly to fish, must be refuted.

 

[chrisdoesntmiss]

it is better to use an ro as you are guaranteed a certain water quality at the end of it, if you cant house one most LFS actually can sell you it from a storage tank, then you cut it with dechlorinated Tap to the correct level. A pain but the most accurate way.

Chris

P.S. I have used britta filter medium in the canister filter directly for a while for a feeder shrimp tank to see if they were effected and i saw no change. however i cannot confirm this will be the same for all tropical species.

 

[Darkstar]

Britta themselves don't recommend using them without consulting an expert:
# Can I use filtered water for tropical fish?
Due to the sensitivity of many tropical fish to even the smallest changes in water quality or conditions, such as temperature and pH, as BRITA advises consumers not to use filtered water for tropical fish without consulting a specialist.

Once again I have no knowledge whether its safe to use, im just posting stuff I find, if I find a conclusive answer I will let you know.

yes i am aware of this. but if you read the comment you can see, they are just covering their backs. none of the things mentioned above, will have any more effect than if you used carbon in your filter. the only problem we as fishkeepers have with carbon, is chemical leaching. the same is true of a britta filter. if you look at the water recovered from a britta, you will find no silver, well any measurable amount anyway. and there is far more good stuff in britta water than you will find in RO water, which is potentially far more dangerous than any form of carbon filtering. requiring additions of salts minerals, and everything else the membrane removes, just to get back to where you were if you had used a Britta in the first place.

i repeat there is no potential of silver getting into the filtered water, which i believe was your original comment!

though expensive, water treated this way, especially when it is being added to a live tank, is perfectly safe. and vastly preferable to using RO and the water is not acidic, like RO. it even leaves the calcium in the water. its softening effect being restricted to removing lime deposits from the water.

i am not saying this is the best way to solve hardness problems. but it is better than RO. however provably incorrect comments like " silver in brittas is deadly to fish, must be refuted.

You can't ask him for proof of his original quote from PFK and then only respond commenting on the Britta water site text all the while ignoring the PFK article..

I'm just saying what I read in a PFK magazine, when someone wrote in asking if he could use one to get soft water, the expert advised against it. I will see if I can find the magazine and try and quote it.

EDIT: I have found it, PFK issue 11/november 2002, its on page 47, on the right hand side titled 'Great to drink but not for fish'.

Q: Would an ordinary Britta tapwater filter produce softened and acidified water suitable for keeping fish? Such a filter changes my hard and alkaline London water form pH8.0 to pH7.2 and reduced general harness from 17 GH to 3GH.

A: These domestic water filters are not suitable for aquarium use. Some use silver salts to kill bateria, as well as resins that modify the ionic content, and thse can harm many aquatic animals. If your tapater is no longer ideal for your fishes, reduce the ionic content with RO water or if you want a cheaper solution just boil the water and store it over a little peat to acidify it.

The names have been left out, as I don't know if they would like to be mentioned. And I have but in bold what I feel is the main jist of the answer.

So do you dispute this also and do you have more indepth experience of this than the person at PFK whos writing the article?

 

[chrisdoesntmiss]

They wont mention the names of the water softenersnas it advertises the products without the manufacturers approval and descretion. They are only covering there backs if something goes wrong. Best option is to just stay on the safe side and if unsure about a products safety in aquariums just forget about using it.