Okay, Something Needs To Be Done...

[RainboWBacoN420]

So, I made a post in the tropical discussion category about my recently new, male and female Pearl gouramis. They're currently being quarantined, and things aren't looking so good for the female... She's constantly hiding, appearing like she's at deaths door. And now, I totally understand why. The male is a huge jerk, everytime she tries to come out of hiding the male instantly goes for her and starts pecking at her... It's a 10 gallon quarantine, so that may be causing the aggression. In the 55 gallon, would it change the behaviour?
But for now what can I do? I thought the female was just sick or stressed... But now I think she's just trying to avoid the male at all costs... The male seems fine, healthy, bright, really active.... Should I take the risk and place him in the 55...? And keep the female quarantined with meds and antibiotics to give her slime coat and fins time to heal? I don't want to see this aggression continue... I've tried distracting the male when he's about to attack her. And it kind of works... But this will not do. Please, I need some advice, I'm not sure what I can do, except just throw the male into the 55, and keep the female under close attention.. She's really stressed, and if the male continues to bully her, it could very well be the end of her... I need to take action as soon as I can. I would feel guilty if she died because I was careless of pairing these two up... Help me fish hobbyists 101, you're my only hope..

~Dylan (RainboWBacoN420)

 

[Akasha72]

I read your post but as I know very little about gourami's I chose not to comment in case I got something wrong. Things are quiet on the forum because of the holidays so getting an answer might take a while. I'm only around as I don't have much of a family to be with this time of year.
 
I will try to advise you though as this is obviously a worrying thing for you.
 
Okay, firstly are you certain you have a male and a female - is it possible you have two males and that is why he's taken offence to the other fish? I understand two male gourami will fight if kept together.
 
Secondly, if they are a male and a female were you hoping to keep them together? Possibly breed from them? I ask because if it's not working now it's unlikely to work in the future. For some reason these fish are not getting along and so even if you seperate them by adding the male to another tank you will at some point have to re-introduce them and the same behaviour is likely to occur.
If you are unable to keep them seperate long term I would consider re-homing the 'female' or returning her to the store if you can. 
 
That's the best I can do I'm afraid. Whether you brave it and add the healthy looking fish to your tank is entirely your decision

 

[NickAu]

If your 55 gallon is heavily planted it may work, But once they spawn the male wont like the female in the tank.
 
With my pair it was the female doing all the chasing.
 

 
When the female Pearl Gourami has no more eggs to release, the male will chase her away to prevent her from eating the eggs inside the bubble nest. At this point, it is recommended to remove her from the aquarium. Since you cannot be around to watch your fish around the clock, there must be a lot of hiding spots for the female to stay in until you notice the eggs and remove her from the aquarium.

http/www.aquaticcommunity.com/gourami/breedingpearl.php

 

[Baccus]

Its a shame the female is the one being bullied and is stressed because ideally when putting the fish into the main tank I would put the female in first so she can explore and work out  the new area and then later add the male so he is in effect intruding on her territory and not the other way round. This is especially the case because most male fish only really expect a female to wonder into and hang around his territory if she is ready to breed. Her not being ready makes for confusion and aggression.
 
Since the male seems to be fine, I probably would risk putting him in the main tank, and then just treat the female in the hospital tank. You may even find when not being bullied what you thought  was a female may in fact colour up to being a male in its own right. Less dominate males often look like females to our eyes, but the fish know the truth.
If the other fish does still appear female I would rearrange the main tank before adding her once shes all healthy, possibly even remove the male while the rearranging is going on. This effectively makes the tank a "new" territory and the male will have to re-establish himself and his territory.

 

[Byron]

I tracked down your other post on these gourami, just so I don't miss something.  This could be a disease-type issue, or it could be bullying from the "male" fish.  Separating them might be the best action now, but rather than risk moving possibly-sick fish (the male could be carrying something if the female has something) to the main tank, could you find a piece of glass that will sit at a bit of an angle to divide the 10g into two spaces?  If the fish are kept apart, it might be easier to decide the issue, health or bullying.  Of course the two are still in eyesight, and pheromones would still be detected, but it is one way to proceed.  And if it is physical bullying, this would be stopped.
 
I also wonder about the male/female of the two fish.  Males are more colourful (though this may be impossible to detect in new and stressed fish) and have longer dorsal and anal fins.  If you do have two males, this is almost certainly not going to get better in the larger tank, and the dye is cast, so to speak.  A male/female pair might get along with more space, but this is not a certainty.  As I have often written, gourami are very much like cichlids when it comes to behaviour and temperament, and individual fish may not always follow the norm unfortunately.
 
This species is usually more peaceful than any of the other similarly-sized gourami species, but here again this is not always so.  Two or three females to a male is generally better, and you have the space; all should be introduced to the main tank together.  Spawning issues as someone mentioned will follow, but in a 55g nature will take its course, which is fine unless unless it is your intention to rear the fry, in which case a breeding tank is more likely to lead to success.
 
Byron.

 

[RainboWBacoN420]

I read your post but as I know very little about gourami's I chose not to comment in case I got something wrong. Things are quiet on the forum because of the holidays so getting an answer might take a while. I'm only around as I don't have much of a family to be with this time of year.
 
I will try to advise you though as this is obviously a worrying thing for you.
 
Okay, firstly are you certain you have a male and a female - is it possible you have two males and that is why he's taken offence to the other fish? I understand two male gourami will fight if kept together.
 
 

That's okay, I'm aware that the holidays are keeping people busy and the forums slow. And I don't comment on a lot of things for the same reasons. But yes, I'm 100% sure it's male and female. And no, I wasn't attempting to breed these guys...
 
 

If your 55 gallon is heavily planted it may work, But once they spawn the male wont like the female in the tank.
 
With my pair it was the female doing all the chasing.
 

 
When the female Pearl Gourami has no more eggs to release, the male will chase her away to prevent her from eating the eggs inside the bubble nest. At this point, it is recommended to remove her from the aquarium. Since you cannot be around to watch your fish around the clock, there must be a lot of hiding spots for the female to stay in until you notice the eggs and remove her from the aquarium.

http/www.aquaticcommunity.com/gourami/breedingpearl.php

I've read about this. Hopefully they won't get involved in mating. So far, the male hasn't been creating bubble nests. Luckily, the female isn't fighting back, I would think this is good news so that the male wouldn't be provoked further to attack her even worse.
 
And my 55 gallon has many large plants and pieces a wood to provide hiding places. I'm still worried about the aggression continuing in the 55, though. Already, there are a lot of decorations for hiding in the quarantine, but the small space might still be pushing the aggression.
 
 

 
Since the male seems to be fine, I probably would risk putting him in the main tank, and then just treat the female in the hospital tank. You may even find when not being bullied what you thought  was a female may in fact colour up to being a male in its own right. Less dominate males often look like females to our eyes, but the fish know the truth.
If the other fish does still appear female I would rearrange the main tank before adding her once shes all healthy, possibly even remove the male while the rearranging is going on. This effectively makes the tank a "new" territory and the male will have to re-establish himself and his territory.

 
 
Well, if I'm going through with the plan to put the male in the 55 and keep the female quarantined, we'll see if he/she brightens, but I'm almost certain this is a female.
And yes, that's exactly what I've been thinking. That, or, I could add the female while the lights are off? So that I don't have to put stress on the male.
 
 

 
 
This species is usually more peaceful than any of the other similarly-sized gourami species, but here again this is not always so.  Two or three females to a male is generally better, and you have the space; all should be introduced to the main tank together.  
 
Byron.

Trust me, I would've gotten two females if I could, but as always with my luck, there's mostly males... I'm not sure  about divided the tank... That would mean a lot less space for the fish and increase stress. 
I don't think this is disease related, I understand that I may be wrong, but I'm almost certain the female is hiding away because of the male's constant bothering with her. She wants to come out and swim around, but the male doesn't seem to allow it.
As I mentioned, I try to stop the aggression by distracting the male when he follows up on her, because I know he's going in to peck at her. It's not dart attacks or brawling, he just pecks at her to go away. He's just being a huge jerk. They swim together "sometimes", but not too often. In fact, sometimes the female will approach him, as if she wants to be friends! But of course, the male just pecks at her and she retreats to her corner... 

 

[NickAu]

 
I've read about this. Hopefully they won't get involved in mating.

If they are male and female the chances are they will.
 

 
They swim together "sometimes", but not too often. In fact, sometimes the female will approach him, as if she wants to be friends! But of course, the male just pecks at her and she retreats to her corner...

My pair used to swim together most of the time and even when resting they would be close together.
Then.
He would ignore her so she would swim up behind him and slap him with her feelers and he would chase her, when he lost interest in chasing her she would swim up behind him again and slap him on the backside again, some days this went on for hours

 

[RainboWBacoN420]

 

 
I've read about this. Hopefully they won't get involved in mating.

If they are male and female the chances are they will.
 

 
They swim together "sometimes", but not too often. In fact, sometimes the female will approach him, as if she wants to be friends! But of course, the male just pecks at her and she retreats to her corner...

My pair used to swim together most of the time and even when resting they would be close together.
Then.
He would ignore her so she would swim up behind him and slap him with her feelers and he would chase her, when he lost interest in chasing her she would swim up behind him again and slap him on the backside again, some days this went on for hours
 


I don't think I have the right conditions in my tank  for mating. If they happen to breed, couldn't I just remove the eggs so the male doesn't get angry that the female is still in there? 
And they do rest together sometimes... "sometimes" when the male isn't being a jerk. 
As I said, it's usually when the female starts swimming around is when he starts pecking at her.
 
Thank you again, guys. I know the holidays slow everything down and keep people busy. But thanks for going out of your way to help out. I greatly appreciate it.

 

[Byron]

You cannot prevent spawning, of any fish.  If the fish feels so inclined, they will spawn.  With most egg-laying species, this is only going to provide highly nutritious food for the other fish (eggs are normally readily eaten).  However, with gourami we have a bit more to it; again, the comparison to cichlids is pertinent.  Males will build a bubble nest, sometimes even without females present, and if a female is present the male will attempt spawning, whether she is ready or not.  This is when females can take quite a beating.  Assuming eggs do appear, the male will guard the nest as best he can, and the success of this depends upon the individual fish and other fish present.
 
Byron.

 

[RainboWBacoN420]

In the event that there is spawning, I will have no choice but to remove the female, I guess.
 
On a side note, the male has been in the 55 gallon for a couple of days now. He seems to appreciate the space. The female is looking better, her fins are bit shredded. But she's come out of hiding and is swimming around a lot more often. She isn't eating very well, though. I try to feed her the micro pellets, she doesn't seem to like them. The male eats them, but this girl is picky. She seems to go for brine shrimp, but I don't want to over do it with the brine shrimp or have that be the only diet she receives. 
I'm keeping a close eye on these two, especially now that the male is in the 55. There's plenty of hiding places for the female once she's introduced to the tank, I'm hoping the male won't attack her once she's in there.

 

[Byron]

In the event that there is spawning, I will have no choice but to remove the female, I guess.
 
On a side note, the male has been in the 55 gallon for a couple of days now. He seems to appreciate the space. The female is looking better, her fins are bit shredded. But she's come out of hiding and is swimming around a lot more often. She isn't eating very well, though. I try to feed her the micro pellets, she doesn't seem to like them. The male eats them, but this girl is picky. She seems to go for brine shrimp, but I don't want to over do it with the brine shrimp or have that be the only diet she receives. 
I'm keeping a close eye on these two, especially now that the male is in the 55. There's plenty of hiding places for the female once she's introduced to the tank, I'm hoping the male won't attack her once she's in there.

 
From your description, it would seem the male's aggressiveness was the issue, not disease, so that is positive.  The larger tank may work when she is introduced.  Fingers crossed.  Lots of floating plants help.
 
On the food, you should have some good flake food for gourami; they like to pick from the surface, and I tried the micro pellets but some fish do not take to these.
 
Byron.

 

[RainboWBacoN420]

 

In the event that there is spawning, I will have no choice but to remove the female, I guess.
 
On a side note, the male has been in the 55 gallon for a couple of days now. He seems to appreciate the space. The female is looking better, her fins are bit shredded. But she's come out of hiding and is swimming around a lot more often. She isn't eating very well, though. I try to feed her the micro pellets, she doesn't seem to like them. The male eats them, but this girl is picky. She seems to go for brine shrimp, but I don't want to over do it with the brine shrimp or have that be the only diet she receives. 
I'm keeping a close eye on these two, especially now that the male is in the 55. There's plenty of hiding places for the female once she's introduced to the tank, I'm hoping the male won't attack her once she's in there.

 
From your description, it would seem the male's aggressiveness was the issue, not disease, so that is positive.  The larger tank may work when she is introduced.  Fingers crossed.  Lots of floating plants help.
 
On the food, you should have some good flake food for gourami; they like to pick from the surface, and I tried the micro pellets but some fish do not take to these.
 
Byron.
 

Bryon, you're always on the ball when it comes to helpful advice, thank you. 
 
Unfortunately, I think I may have gotten rid of the flakes I used to have. I strayed away from using flakes because I hear they can clog the fishes stomachs as the flakes turn into a sticky paste when digesting. That's why I've switched over to micro pellets, veggie rounds, brine shrimp and blood worms.
Do you think she'll eat live food? I can't find any information of captive gouramis feeding off of live food. I still have plenty of flightless fruit flies that none of my fish seem to be interested in... 

 

[Baccus]

A live food she is certain to adore are mosquito wrigglers, I have not found a fish yet that will not go ape for these wriggling bundles of protein. She probably would also take life brine shrimp if you can get them or raise them, but brine shrimp don't tend to have much nutrient value. Another option would be live bloodworms and or tubifex worms.
A surprising food that a lot of fish like (and is an old style food that many fish keeping books swear by) is ant eggs. The bonus of ant eggs is they tend to float and the fish can pick them off easily. My Siamese fighter used to love getting ant eggs and all the other fish would go crazy for them too.
Another option might be if you have room, set up a colony of cull cherry shrimp. At one point I had sparkling gouramis and even these little tykes used to tear the cherry shrimp apart.

 

[Byron]

Unfortunately, I think I may have gotten rid of the flakes I used to have. I strayed away from using flakes because I hear they can clog the fishes stomachs as the flakes turn into a sticky paste when digesting. That's why I've switched over to micro pellets, veggie rounds, brine shrimp and blood worms.
 

 
Baccus gave some excellent suggestions on the live foods, so I'll just respond to this comment.  I too was pursuaded into this thinking, which is why I acquired several brands of pellet foods.  I even used the two smallest of New Life Spectrum, but after several months of alternating these with NLS basic flake and Omega One Veggie Flake, some of the fish still refused to take the pellets.  I always alternate foods, with three basic at a time, to avoid any problems with fussy eaters, and it is quite obvious that different fish prefer certain foods over others.  Anyway, after two lots of the pellets, over more than a year, I gave up and went to freeze dried daphnia as my third staple.  This is another optio for gourami, as this food will float, is very small, and most fish find it tasty.  Frozen daphnia is good too.
 
Bloodworms, frozen, may get her eating more, but this is not a good staple food and should only be fed once or at very most twice weekly.  It is very high in fat.  I had some very fussy eaters once that would eat nothing except frozen bloodworms, and not surprisingly they did not do well and slowly died off.
 
Byron.

 

[NickAu]

When I had my pair of Lace Gouramis they loved Atisons betta pro so basically I fed them like they were a betta, and because I have Kuhli loaches they also used to eat Loach wafers. Feeding them was not a problem over feeding because they ate bottom dweller food was.