Oh My GOD I got an ALTUM!

[Kopix Nation]

Yea they do need low ph and I was thinking of the tanks ph that the altum is going to be in at 5.5 in the middle so that it is not toooo low and not toooo high!! Also isn't it crazy how warm the water has to be for them?? 82-84F that is warm!! Well I was think more along the lines of 83F in my tank.

claire

 

[rdd1952]

pH range: 4.8 - 6.2; dH range: 1 - 5
Climate: tropical; 27 - 31°C

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I guess it depends on where you look and as Kopix said, who to believe. This is off liveaquaria.com:

Minimum Tank Size: 30 gallons
Care Level: Difficult
Tank Conditions: 75-82°F; pH 5.8-7.0; KH 1-5

Quite a bit of difference on temp and pH. I love how they look but don't know that I want that much pressure to keep the water conditions the way they need them. Also, with them prefering such a high temp what could you put in with them?

 

[The-Wolf]

I would believe fishbase over any other commercial site
for the fact that many of the collaberators are highly respected in their field(ichthology).
Fang Fang and Sven Kullander, to name but two, often submit their findings to fishbase is also a reason to belive in it.

 

[MarkW]

Has no-one seen the irony of this post?
Person works in LFS, buys on impluse and then asks what size tank to keep the fish in?

 

[George Farmer]

Has no-one seen the irony of this post?
Person works in LFS, buys on impluse and then asks what size tank to keep the fish in?

[snapback]921923[/snapback]​

Agreed.

Kopix Nation - How tall is your tank? Altums need a minimum of 24" preferably 30".

How soft is your tap water? Or will you be using RO? How do you intend getting your pH down to 5.5 and keeping it stable (easier said than done)?

I would advise wild caught (they probably will be, tank bred are very rare) specimens are only for experienced fishkeeper that has done plenty of research.

 

[jfrancho]

There are three species that belong to the genus Pterophyllum:
P. scalare Common Angel we are all familiar with
P. dumerili Dumeril's Angel, pretty rare
P. altum Altum Angel, the fish in question

I seem to recall some debate as to whether P. altum was a true species. As far as I know, most of these are wild caught fish, and as such should receive the best care possible. I kept four in a 55g tank many years ago. I don't recall paying that much for mine, maybe US$20 each, but this was 13 years ago. I used RO/DI water buffered with Seachem's Neutral Regulator and Discus Buffer and filtered through peat to pH 5.0. Typically changed about 5g every three days. At first, they only ate blackworms, but after a few weeks, they accepted frozen, flake, and softened pelleted foods. They eventually became too much work to maintain, and I traded them to a much more qualified hobbyist (discus breeder) after about a year. These fish get big. As juveniles, they have very elongate unpaired and ventral fins. They eventually grow into these. The Cichlid Aquarium by Loiselle has an excellent picture of adult altums. Congrats on your purchase, and take good care of them, they are something else.

[EDIT]It looks like taxonomy for this group is a little more confusing than I initially understood. Further research has shown that P. dumerili may not belong to this genus, and I forgot about P. leopoldi. Anyway, I hope the altum info helps in your endeavor.[/EDIT]

 

[Kopix Nation]

Like I said I am studying my butt off...I knew about altums before I even liked angelfish. A whole section of one of my books is completely dedicated to these fish and I have reread all of it. My tank is 18" high and 37" across.... But I have seen many altums kept in aquariums that are at least that high and have done fine!

claire

 

[sylvia]

If you can't find info on altums, read up on discus. There's plenty out there on them and everything's basicaly the same - except altums are a little more extreme in their requirements as far as pH is concerned. You can also use scalare scalare info for most things. I also would suggest you don't go for 3 - if 2 pair up the third will have hell to pay for it. Get four and try to introduce them all at once. For fish that'll work at higher temps, look at cardinal and rummynose tetras (though they may get eaten by adult angels), peaceful gouramies (quarantine first as they can harbour disease) and anything else that is typicaly kept with discus.

BTW, p. dumerilii and p. leopoldi are synonyms - same fish, different name.
Here's an informative article about the species of angels (won't be much use as far as caring for them though): http/www.finarama.com/tba/chronicles/burgess1.htm

 

[Kopix Nation]

I thought it was hard to get a pair out of altums... Maybe just two... Or if they are truely hard to pair up and breed then why not three? I was said it is easier to keep angelfish in odd numbers!

claire

 

[pica_nuttalli]

not in threes. if you develop a breeding pair, they will work together to kill off the third one to protect their breeding space.

 

[Kopix Nation]

I thought that they did not breed in captivity!!! Also I thought that altums where as easy to keep as discus it was just the couple weeks in which they were bought that was the hard part.... are discus hard fish to keep I really hope that if I get four the tank will not be to small for them! \

claire

 

[guppymonkey]

Like I said I am studying my butt off...I knew about altums before I even liked angelfish. A whole section of one of my books is completely dedicated to these fish and I have reread all of it. My tank is 18" high and 37" across.... But I have seen many altums kept in aquariums that are at least that high and have done fine!

claire

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This is the absolute WORST mistake that fishkeepers make. "I know someone that has done it before" so they think its done the right way. I have known someone that kept an oscar in a 20 gallon long tank. Does that mean its done the right way? DUH! Of course not!

Altums need a really deep tank. 18 inches is not deep enough. Altum Angels can reach upwards of a foot in heighth, that would only give them 6 inches to move up or down. Thats not enough. It would be like having a ceiling thats 7 feet. Might feel a little cramped after awhile.

Also, altums can be bred in captivity but its very rare and difficult to do especially if they are wild caught. With only two its probably not something that will occur. Sort of like hitting the lottery.

 

[Kopix Nation]

oh ok.......fine I will put him in with my oscars lol JUST KIDDING.

claire

 

[Tolak]

http/www.angelfish.net/yabbse/index.php?...y;threadid=4612

Here is a dedicated group oriented towards altums.

Altums are not the type of fish to purchase on the spur of the moment. If I found someone selling them for $10 I would not buy any. It's something you need to have the proper equipment & experience to have success with.

You need a taller tank, and a ro unit. You can do what you want, I wouldn't go less than 24" deep. Water needs to be near identical to what is found in the wild, live food is needed at first. Daily water changes with reconstituted ro are needed. Altums & wild caught discus are 2 of the fish that I would medicate for parasites, worms, and bacterial problems from the start.

They need to be kept in groups when young, 4 in a 65 gallon would be a good start, ideally 6 in a 120, as they do get big.

Personally I would not keep them unless I had experience keeping & breeding discus, as much of what needs to be accomplished in discus breeding applies to keeping altums. I would need to get a good ro unit, a larger tank, and somehow find the time to dedicate to just that one tank. I'll probably try it when I retire.

Tolak

 

[CFC]

A bit of topic here but i thought it might interest some of you. Last weekend the shop i bought my paradise threadfin from had tank bred altums which had been bred and raised in London tapwater, pH 7.8, GH 20 and nitrates of 40ppm!! They were selling at £10 each (about $18) for a 1 1/2" sized fish. It would seem that the mighty altum angel may be becoming a more commonly kept fish than it has previously.