Not Another Ram Problem :( Please Help!

[RamboFish]

Ok so, I used to have 6 rams in my tank, 2 of which paired up, and over a number of months they all died Some with no symptoms. But some showing the odd red spot, or just odd behaviour like sitting at the top of the tank. They didnt really respond to the treatment recommended by my lfs and my paramtres were all fine.

ANYWAY. Recently, after a month or two off, ive decided to try two new rams now my tank is more mature. But now, after just 2 weeks they don't seem right. One of them just seems a bit scared and hides alot but i think this it becuase it is possibly the less dominent male but the other has been fine up to today. He seems to not be using his right fin. It has a blackness to the end against his body, which sort of spreads around his gills too.

Tank size: 90l (uk)
PH: Not certain, but my lfs who tested it recently said it's the same as theirs, which is where a got the rams.
ammonia: 0
nitrite: 0
nitrate: 0
tank temp: 25 - 26 c

Fish Symptoms (include full description including lesion, color, location, fish behavior):
Described above

Volume and Frequency of water changes:
Weekly, approx 20% ish

Chemical Additives or Media in your tank:
Carbon in filter

Tank inhabitants:
Neons, red phantoms, a few plattys, algae eating shrimps, small group of corys an a pleco

Recent additions to your tank (living or decoration):
Only rams fish wise.
Been buying some new plants recently and have been picking out quite a few snails.


Exposure to chemicals:
None

Photos:
Sorry they arent great

Anything you would recomend me doing?
I didnt know wheather to pop him in the floating fry/ hospital box and use some API aquarium salt just to treat it in someway until i have a proper diognosis?
Please help asap, don't want to lose anymore rams
I think if i lose either of these, if the other one gets ill too, or if he gets worse i will take them back to the shop, as for som reason i dont think they agree with my tank

 

[The Taffy Apple]

Any particular reason for the '0' NitrAtes?

Terry.

 

[RamboFish]

Oh yh. What should they be ideally? I just know when I tested them with my api drop test kit it was in the yellow. I'm going to double check that tomorrow incase I misread the scale

 

[The Taffy Apple]

Oh yh. What should they be ideally? I just know when I tested them with my api drop test kit it was in the yellow. I'm going to double check that tomorrow incase I misread the scale

I would...unless the API test kit bottles are not thoroughly shaken they can, and do, give the wrong results. What i would recommend is playing along to a song on the radio whilst playing the drums with NitrAte bottles 1 and 2 on a hard, flat surface !!! It works.

Terry.

 

[RamboFish]

Lol ok. I tried again this morning and it was 0 but I will try the drumming trick tonight

 

[nmonks]

tank temp: 25 - 26 c

Here's one possible explanation: your tank is too cold. Mikrogeophagus ramirezi live in shallow waters (around 30 cm deep) in open areas, and consequently the water there is very warm, between 28-32 degrees C (28-30 C is fine for aquarium specimens). That's much warmer than the water enjoyed by most other South American fish. Neons and (most) Corydoras for example will live in water around 22-24 C. Fish can't control their body temperature, and that means their body processes go as fast or as slow as ambient temperature allows. If they're too cold, their immune system and digestive system work slowly, and that can have serious impacts on their health.

Rams are best kept in "hothouse" conditions away from fish that need cooler water. Ideally, keep them alone because warm water holds less oxygen, and that means that even a tank that isn't overstocked may be oxygen deficient, and that will obviously cause problems for your fish.

Cheers, Neale

 

[RamboFish]

So maybe that explains why they have all had problems. Do you think my best option is to take them back to the shop?

 

[nmonks]

To be honest, I'd keep them. Sending them back only means they'll end up being stressed and then kept by someone who may keep them so badly they'll die quickly. At least you know the issues now, and perhaps you can up the temperature and keep them with species that tolerate heat well (such as Angels, Cardinals and Gouramis). You might even up the temperature a bit, to 28 C, and see how the other fish react. If the tank is understocked and you have an airstone in there, they might be okay. On the other hand, you might leave the temperature at 26 C, and hope for the best. Some Rams clearly do survive in such conditions as evidenced by those lucky fishkeepers who've kept them thus without problems.

But long term, ordinary Rams generally don't do well in mixed community tanks, especially not with low-end tropical species like Neons, Platies and Corydoras. Next time around, you might go with a Dwarf Cichlid that shares their needs and isn't so difficult to keep, like the Sheepshead Acara.

Cheers, Neale