No-tech To Low-tech.. Help!

[Squid]

Hello all..

(Just to make sure there is not confusion.. I have done nothing yet.. the pic at the bottom is my before and present pic... its the after i want help with thanks!!!!! )

Plant wise, I have been thinking about doing a little bit more with my tank. I was thinking about removing them altogether and going the Mbuna direction, but the missus likes the plants (as do I) and it's her lounge too..

My tank has been running since last January when i started a fishless cycle. So actually it was about 4-5 weeks after that once it was finished cycling that the tank was really up and running. Currently my tank setup is so..

Juwel Rio 18 (internal filter removed) and original bubs (urgh!!!) EDIT.. thats a rio 180.. and 18 would be a bit smaller eh...!
Eheim 2026 PII filter
First Layer Laterite with sand on top
Mopwani wood, bogwood and rocks
Java Fern and Valis
Panda Corys, cardinal tetras, pentazona barbs, couple of otos and a BN Plec
Just started adding Flora 24 each day. (need to get some more planty style test kits for C02, phosphates and iron i guess)

I have been looking at 'Themuleous' low tech tank and it has got me thinking about doing a little more. Like Sam I also have 1.2-1.3 watts per gallon (not a lot). The first thing i know i need to do is get some new bulbs and put some more plant friendly ones in. Then i am thinking about adding some C02. I want to keep this low tech for the moment. If i am pleased with the results I may move to more lighting later on. (if i get the bug).

My nitrate levels are really low, which has caused me a bit of an algae issue now and then. Hopefully adding fish will help with this.

So I have a few questions. If you can answer 1 or many then that would be great.

1. How much does the CO2 help with this level of lighting?
2. Does the CO2 help with alage as I have heard?
3. How many ppm should i aim for in this tank with low lighting?
4. What ferts would you recommend for a low tech tank? (currently low nitrates, but will add more fish)
5. Will my laterite still be effective after this long, would you advise i ripped all the substrate out and started again, or would root tabs be good enough.. if root tabs, how many do you use?
6. is it ok to keep the wood with the algae if i remove the visible bits? or will this promote more algae?
7. My BN plec is a bit of a home wrecker.. will he be ok in a more planted tank?
8. Is it harder to syphon the fish poop with a more heavily planted tank? do you end up missing it and causing waste issues, or do you end up sucking up small plants all the time and causing a mess?
9. What % subtrate plant cover should you aim for in a low-tech tank?
10. If i decide to up the lighting to 2 WPG, is EI essential, or are there easier methods? The 50% water change sounds like a pain. How do you deal with the temp changes, which must be more of a problem with 50% change instead of 25%.
11. how should i deal with the eheim filter and its ability to make the plants sway too much...!


The current MESS is below.. any pointers as to how to improve it would be great. (the tank water is clear, its the camera phone that isn't....!!!).. SPOT the algae problem on the wood a bit.

Cheers
Squid

 

[jimbooo]

Hello all..

(Just to make sure there is not confusion.. I have done nothing yet.. the pic at the bottom is my before and present pic... its the after i want help with thanks!!!!! )

Plant wise, I have been thinking about doing a little bit more with my tank. I was thinking about removing them altogether and going the Mbuna direction, but the missus likes the plants (as do I) and it's her lounge too..

My tank has been running since last January when i started a fishless cycle. So actually it was about 4-5 weeks after that once it was finished cycling that the tank was really up and running. Currently my tank setup is so..

Juwel Rio 18 (internal filter removed) and original bubs (urgh!!!) EDIT.. thats a rio 180.. and 18 would be a bit smaller eh...!
Eheim 2026 PII filter
First Layer Laterite with sand on top
Mopwani wood, bogwood and rocks
Java Fern and Valis
Panda Corys, cardinal tetras, pentazona barbs, couple of otos and a BN Plec
Just started adding Flora 24 each day. (need to get some more planty style test kits for C02, phosphates and iron i guess)

I have been looking at 'Themuleous' low tech tank and it has got me thinking about doing a little more. Like Sam I also have 1.2-1.3 watts per gallon (not a lot). The first thing i know i need to do is get some new bulbs and put some more plant friendly ones in. Then i am thinking about adding some C02. I want to keep this low tech for the moment. If i am pleased with the results I may move to more lighting later on. (if i get the bug).

My nitrate levels are really low, which has caused me a bit of an algae issue now and then. Hopefully adding fish will help with this.

So I have a few questions. If you can answer 1 or many then that would be great.

1. How much does the CO2 help with this level of lighting?
2. Does the CO2 help with alage as I have heard?
3. How many ppm should i aim for in this tank with low lighting?
4. What ferts would you recommend for a low tech tank? (currently low nitrates, but will add more fish)
5. Will my laterite still be effective after this long, would you advise i ripped all the substrate out and started again, or would root tabs be good enough.. if root tabs, how many do you use?
6. is it ok to keep the wood with the algae if i remove the visible bits? or will this promote more algae?
7. My BN plec is a bit of a home wrecker.. will he be ok in a more planted tank?
8. Is it harder to syphon the fish poop with a more heavily planted tank? do you end up missing it and causing waste issues, or do you end up sucking up small plants all the time and causing a mess?
9. What % subtrate plant cover should you aim for in a low-tech tank?
10. If i decide to up the lighting to 2 WPG, is EI essential, or are there easier methods? The 50% water change sounds like a pain. How do you deal with the temp changes, which must be more of a problem with 50% change instead of 25%.
11. how should i deal with the eheim filter and its ability to make the plants sway too much...!


The current MESS is below.. any pointers as to how to improve it would be great. (the tank water is clear, its the camera phone that isn't....!!!).. SPOT the algae problem on the wood a bit.

Cheers
Squid

Hi mate, glad your pressing on with the planted route. you may want to check out my 50G cube journal in my sig. i've since sold it but that was 1.3 WPG (2 foot deep) diy co2 and the odd dash of liquid fert, no EI. it worked very well indeed if i say so myself.

in answer to your questions

1) it always helps, plants need co2 as much as they need light so if one is low they still need the other and you will see benefits.
2) yes, indirectly though. if the plants are growing well (which they wont do without co2) then they will be using up nutrients that will otherwise be utilised by algae.
3)always around 30PPM whatever the lighting. however 10ppm is better than none at all so see what you can manage. pressurised is best but i got to 30ppm in my rio180 with 2 nutrafin kits and a diy mix. i just got fed up with the refilling every week. fluctuating co2 levels are not good as plants cant adapt quickly enough (and algae can) so you'll end up with a furry tank before long with the diy route unless you really keep on top of the refilling.
4)ideally phosphate should be no higher than 1ppm. at that level 15-20ppm nitrate is ideal. if you have low phosphate and low nitrate you should add nitrate to get to this ratio. However if you have a moderate fish load and do 10% weekly changes you will likley settle at this sort of figure anyway. see how it goes and keep testing every 3 days or so for the first few weeks to get an idea of whats naturally occuring. you should add liquid ferts (general iron, potassium etc like leaf zone for example) as per manufacturers instructions to keep the plants looking vibrant.
5)laterite plays a big part in the plant growth almost as much as light and co2. i would (and have) buy a small box of laterite and add it to your planting area and just mix it in with the existing substrate. give it a thorough gravel vac first to get rid of debris though as your not going to see most of the substrate for a while if things go to plan.
6)personally i'd bin it and get a new peice, you can boil it but i have tried this in the past and it always grows back. it's surprising how hardy that algae is!
7)should be fine, he may damage a few anubias leaves and swords but if the tanks healthy they will soon regenerate. i've always had plecs in mine and theyve not caused any major problems (my common plec is about 9 inches now!)
8 ) i only vac the front 4 inches as i cant get to the rest. if you stock with a few corys and amano shrimp they'll deal with any waste food and the poop rots very quickly. dont worry too much about it.
9)the more the merrier. at least 60/70% for the algae reducing properties of healthy plant growth to have the desired effect. (use more slow growers than stems ie anubias/lillies/java fern etc) in my experience fast growing stem plants are more effected by low light and can grow a bit spindly and sparse. tiger lotus lillies are a good bet any you should still get deep red colours if you top up the laterite.
10)ei will be more likley required but not essential at 2 WPG. basically the more light the faster the nutrients will be used requiring you to replace them to keep the before mentioned ratio's in balance.
Temp - never really worried about it. i top up with warmish tap (plus conditioner) put my habd in for a rough guide and dump it in. a slightly colder change tends to promote breeding in some fish so as long as your roughly there the odd fluctuation will be fine.
11)use a spray bar and bore out the holes a bit to make a softer current, add more holes if necessary. i have an additional fluval 104 on mine with the juwel filter. the spray bar goes at the back left fitted vertically. easy to hide behind a few swords!

do the above and buy some nice varieties of plants and you should have a majorly improved tank before long.

ps is that the java fern i sent you ages ago in the pic. if so my hasn't it grown!

hope that helps, catch you later mate and good luck.

 

[Squid]

Jim,

Thanks for taking the time to respond and write all that.. I had completely forgotten that your cube was a similar sort of thing. I shall get reading. I haven't seen pics of your tanks for a while now, would be good to get an update on them ..

Unfortunately those little java fern plantlets took a bit of a battering during the cycle a long time ago, and so I had to replace them, but the java fern has grown fairly well since, even with my crappy juwel lamps.

I may replace the wood eventually then...! darn algae.

BTW.. one last one. Do you remove the fish when doing a heavy planting session? and how much of the water do you remove when doing it. Or.. will careful hands be ok with the fish left in

Squid

 

[jimbooo]

nah they'll be fine. drop it to 50% put everything in buckets apart from the fish and when adding the laterite use a gravel vac tube. make a ditch in the substrate along your planting areas, dig the tube into the substrate in the ditch, add laterite into the top of the tube (above water level) and kind of slowly sweep along spreading the laterite out. then quickly pull the sides of the ditch together burying the laterite.

if you just drop it in the water you wont be able to see a thing for the red dust. (rince it first obviously but not too much. just so the water is merky as opposed to thick and gungy red)


as to my tank's the rekord 60 is now in my office and the 180 has moved house with me. i have only just found my camera so will put some up to date pictures up soon of both.

 

[Squid]

nah they'll be fine. drop it to 50% put everything in buckets apart from the fish and when adding the laterite use a gravel vac tube. make a ditch in the substrate along your planting areas, dig the tube into the substrate in the ditch, add laterite into the top of the tube (above water level) and kind of slowly sweep along spreading the laterite out. then quickly pull the sides of the ditch together burying the laterite.

if you just drop it in the water you wont be able to see a thing for the red dust. (rince it first obviously but not too much. just so the water is merky as opposed to thick and gungy red)


as to my tank's the rekord 60 is now in my office and the 180 has moved house with me. i have only just found my camera so will put some up to date pictures up soon of both.

thanks chap... BTW.. just been looking at your 50G journal.. Plant geek says that the lilly really shouldnt have grown in that tank with that level of lighting.. You must have green fingers (and red)... hmm, after looking at that again, i think i might go for it..

Squid

 

[jimbooo]

when you're ready for it. ie done the laterite co2 etc. pm me your address again and i'll send you some. mine's gone mad and i have a few runners i could send you. i must have 4 mother plants now and at least 3 little ones at various stages of growth.

i'm convinced it's the co2 and laterite that make up for the shortfall in lighting. as i said the cube was 1.3WPG, 2 foot deep and also had a crappy condensation cover that was far from transparent. even then it still thrived.

 

[Themuleous]

Sorry, really wanted to sit down and get involved in this thread, but just not had a chance over the past few days. But wanted to add...

I have been looking at 'Themuleous' low tech tank and it has got me thinking about doing a little more. Like Sam I also have 1.2-1.3 watts per gallon (not a lot).

Glad to be of service! As you may have read my 20g is in a shocking state, but don't let that put you off, I was overly ambitious with the lighting level I had and chose the wrong plants. Careful planning and you can easily get a great scape even with low light. Tom Barr says low light tanks with added CO2 are some of the best/easiest; all the advantage of CO2 without the hassle of algae having lots of light to feed off (If I remember rightly!)

Looking forward to seeing this develop

Sam

 

[Squid]

Cheers Sam...

Squid