No Need To Cycle If Moving Filter?

[Schmill]

Ok so here goes for anyone not familiar - lol

At the moment I have a 60L tank all up and running and good.
I have a new 300L tank that I will hopefully fill with water tonight.

Now I was expecting to have to ammonia dose the new tank and do the whole fishless cycle like I did with my 60L tank.
However from what people have said, and a few things I have read it seems I might be able to just move all the water, & fish & internal filter from my 60L and put it in the 300L, top up (and declor) the 300L tank and all will be well?

Have I got that right? No need to cycle or anything? If thats the case how long will it take for the bacteria to migrate from my little Interpet PF2 in-tank filter, across into the main Aquis 1200 external canister filter fitted to the main tank? (ie. when can I remove the old filter, or start to take advantage of the bigger tank by adding more fish )

Also moving the filter (forgetting water & plants for a minute) from my 60L tank, will mean that I need to move ALL my fish from the 60L tank to the new tank, but previously it's been said that some fish shouldn't be moved over into even a cycled tank straight away?

My stocklist is:
Guppies
Cardinal Tetras
Albino Corys
Praecox (rainbow)
Pleco (rubbernose / bulldog)

I'm just a bit confused now about what I should / shouldn't do, and what I can / can't do - lol

Any clarity is most welcome

Thanks

As an extra note, I had a problem with my guppies about a fornight ago, where I lost about 6 fish. 4 died with no obvious reason, and 2 wasted away. It was diagnosed as likely being an internal parasite by people on this forum, and I believe that now (fingers crossed), it has gone anyway. This is one thing that makes me a bit apprehensive about moving the water / fish / filter over to the new tank? Would I be better doing a standard fishless cycle on the new tank (or at least starting one), and then perhaps in a few weeks (either when the cycle is complete, or else everything in the 60L seems to have stayed health), THEN move everything over?

 

[Tolak]

Your tank does not cycle, and your water does not cycle, your filter media cycles. If you were going from a bare tank with no substrate or decorations I would say just move the fish & cycled filter.

Decorations & substrate will hold a small amount of nitrifying bacteria. If you have a decorated small tank, moving to a larger tank with new decorations it is wise to err on the side of caution.

Fast the fish for 24 hours before the move, and feed lightly for the next week. Less food means less waste produced, this reduces or eliminates the chances of any ammonia or nitrite spikes.

I deal mostly with bare tanks in my setup, and have moved a couple hundred angel fry from a 5 gallon to a 20 or 29 gallon with their filter countless times. 100% fresh dechlored water in the larger tank, move the fish & filter, job is done. The filter doesn't know if it is running on a 5 gallon or a 29 gallon. Your filter doesn't know if it is running on a 60l or a 300l. It has enough nitrifying bacteria to handle the current bio load regardless of tank size.

I would wait a couple of weeks to add any new fish, and about a month before considering removing the smaller filter. When removing the smaller filter once again fast for 24 hours & feed lightly for a week.

From your list those fish should be fine for the move. The problem with guppys is that over the years there has been way too much inbreeding & not enough outcrossing to keep a line going that has a healthy immune response and no genetic issues.

You could also do what is known as cloning. The existing filter media can handle the bio load in the 60l. Half of the media will handle half the bio load, 1/4 of the media 1/4 of the bio load. Not knowing the number of each fish I can't split them up, but be aware that the plec & corys will produce a little more waste. If you had 6 of each fish on your list you could take 3 of each, add half the filter media to the new tank, and be reasonably assured that you won't have a problem. Once again the fasting & light feeding apply.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

i think the reason schmill is a little confused is he asked the other day about the difference between a mature and a cycled tank. there are some species which are a bit delicate and not recommended for a newly cycled tank but can come in when the tank is a few months old. Schmill wanted to know what the difference was. I gave a link which discusses the various arguments behind this, the different un-monitored chemical reactions, the bio film, the maturity of the filter bacteria colony and it's ability to quickly reproduce etc.

Now in a tank where you move a cycled filter onto a brand new tank you would find that some of these things are not there so would that throw up a problem for the fish which shouldn't be added straight after cycling?

Now I honestly don't know, i've moved filters onto new tanks and moved fish the same day as per Tolak's instructions with sucess, but I've never attempted it with any delicate fish so I can't give any practical experience of what would happen.

 

[Schmill]

Ok, thanks both. I'm thinking then that perhaps I'll just play it the safest I can.

I'll do a fishless cycle on the 300L tank. The intank filter in the 60L has course foam, a fine foam, and some bio noodles. I would guess that most of the bacteria is on the bionoodles, but that some will be on the foams.
I'll remove the foams from that filter and drop them into the canister of the 300L tank's filter, as a 'seed' and replace them with new foams in the 60L tank. (as far as I can remember I can't remove the noodles (or a portion of) from the 60L tank filter as they are in a sealed plastic cage 'module'.
That way hopefully the 300L tank filter will cycle quicker than it would do usually, and then I can transfer over the more 'hardy' fish to it whilst still having a fully operation 60L tank.
I know that probably seems like the long way round, but I think it is safest for me and the fish

 

[Spishkey]

Ok, thanks both. I'm thinking then that perhaps I'll just play it the safest I can.

I'll do a fishless cycle on the 300L tank. The intank filter in the 60L has course foam, a fine foam, and some bio noodles. I would guess that most of the bacteria is on the bionoodles, but that some will be on the foams.
I'll remove the foams from that filter and drop them into the canister of the 300L tank's filter, as a 'seed' and replace them with new foams in the 60L tank. (as far as I can remember I can't remove the noodles (or a portion of) from the 60L tank filter as they are in a sealed plastic cage 'module'.
That way hopefully the 300L tank filter will cycle quicker than it would do usually, and then I can transfer over the more 'hardy' fish to it whilst still having a fully operation 60L tank.
I know that probably seems like the long way round, but I think it is safest for me and the fish

if you do that id be very careful it doesnt start some sort of mini cycle in your small tank. if you remove too much filter media (the sponges) you will be taking away a portion of the 'good' bacteria, and the remaining bacteria left on the 'noodles' may not cope with all of your fish's waste in the 60L.

do daily water tests and be prepared for some extra water changes if you go that way.

 

[Schmill]

Argh... - lol

Ok, so the safest safest safest method is just to do a complete virgin fishless cycle on the 300L tank, and not steal any media from the 60L tank. Although tbh I don't think there is much bacteria on the sponges anyway, as I used to regularly wash them out with tap water but would leave the bio-noodly bit sat in the tank in the water. I might try taking the sponges, but as you say, monitor the water in the 60L tank just to be sure no mini-cylce starts

 

[Miss Wiggle]

no, take some to seed it, just don't take too much. a mature cycled tank can have one third of it's media safely replaced with no mini cycle. So take some to seed it, just don't take more than one third!

 

[Tolak]

A colony of mature nitrifying bacteria is capable of doubling every 24 hours. This is the reason you can take safely some media to clone a tank, or to start a cycle. I've done a fishless cycle on two of my tanks, the rest are cloned.

I run extra sponge filters in tanks, and don't give a second thought to taking one out of three sponge filters out of a larger tank, putting it in a 20 or 29, and putting a pair, growing out fry, or new purchases in that tank.

The absolute safest would be a fishless cycle, bear in mind no method is totally foolproof.