Nnnnnnnooooooooooo!

[JamieBailie]

Sorry, just looked back and I read what you said wrong, My bad

 

[orange shark]

lol s'all good

 

[LakeyGal]

Please don't use BNs or Cories in a fishy cycle.....I love them little buggers......
I'd donate some media if you could get to Northants..

 

[LOOBYLOU]

I recently swapped tanks - an upgrade from 125 ltr to 400ltr

The plan was to transfer the water from the old tank but we got some kind of parasite

So the new tank had a couple of bottles of tetra safe liquid chucked in along with a load of new plants - left to cycle for 48 hours then we chucked the fish in. We lost 2 out of 80 fish - which included 20 odd fry.

My step dad di his by the book and kept getting the water tested and only put fish in when the water was perfect - he lost half of them and had to restock over a couple of months.

 

[JamieBailie]

Thats fine and dandy, But think about the permanent ill health you may have caused your fish, Ammonia basically BURNS the fish's skin. It makes them more susceptible to diseases amoungst other things which I can't remember.

When you left the tank for 48 hours, Nothing was cycling, It didn't do anything at all to the water.

So in the long run, It PAYS to cycle your tank properly.

For people who don't have any other choice but to cycle the tank with fish in it, Should only use a few fish.

 

[Tobigara]

i think maybe that the only people who don't have a choice about whether to do a fish-in or a fishless cycle are the people that impulse buy. that's what happened to me. i bought everything including the fish all at once and set it all up in a couple of hours. i happen to enjoy all the work needed with a fish-in cycle but i admit i was stupid for not researching fully. i have 3 tanks now i have done a fishless cycle in the second tank and i'm cycling the 3rd now. in my opinion fishless is the way to go. it's boring but everything seems better when it's done and all the fish are colorful and happy.

 

[xxBarneyxx]

I think a lot of us started the same way. When I first started keeping fish the common advice was to cycle using danios or other hardy fish. It was only once I got speaking to other fishkeepers that I learnt about fishless cycling and I have only seen it become well known over the last 4 or 5 years.

Unfortunatly for most people starting out they wont learn about it until it is too late. It sucks for people to be in this situation, especially people that only want to do the best for the animals that they look after. I just get annoyed when people know that cycling with fish is going to do them long term damage and still go ahead and do it anyway.

I still think the first company to make a "cycling kit" containing ammonia, test kits, ammonia dosing guide and nice easy to follow instructions is going to make a killing.

 

[Musho3210]

why dont you start one barney? Just get API tests and empty the bottle into an other bottle, include a pippet or something to drop stuff in test tubes that you bought your own. Get some ammonia at your grocery store and put those in little bottles. Then sell them lol

 

[xxBarneyxx]

I have given it some serious thought actually but I have enough work to do as it is

 

[-germ-]

I still think the first company to make a "cycling kit" containing ammonia, test kits, ammonia dosing guide and nice easy to follow instructions is going to make a killing.

Personally i don't think it'd prove popular.
IMO aquatics retailers would avoid selling them for numerous different reasons, i think they'd do well online, sold to current hobbyists.
But in order to do well in highstreet outlets they'd need the backing of the stores that sell them, who probably have more to gain (financially, in the short-term) by not informing people of fishless cycling.
Actually a good point would be that any aquatic retailer could set up a bargain package (ammonia with any liquid test kit and a cut-and-pasted fact sheet on cycling) quite easily. But they don't and i doubt many ever will......

 

[xxBarneyxx]

Yeah the sad reality is that it is easier and more cost effective for a fish shop to recommend cycling with fish. I imagine if you are working in a busy fish shop it is not easy to explain to someone that they can have fish in their tank for about 3-4 weeks and they need to add something from this bottle every couple of days then test for this, this and this every day.

Much easier for them to say "get 6 of these fish to start with then come back in a few weeks to get any others you want".

I can understand that, I dont like it but I do understand it.

 

[-germ-]

Me either, i think there should be more stringent rules when it comes to selling fish, but then again alot of consumers would simply ignore the advice anyway which would be impossible to monitor.

Much easier for them to say "get 6 of these fish to start with then come back in a few weeks to get any others you want".

Not only that but if they do cycle fish in and end up with ill fish, they are likely to get repeat-custom through people purchasing replacement fish, medications and basically anything that some LFS (some, by no means all) can palm off on them before (if) the customer gets educated on the matter.
Theres also the fact that training takes time and money, which goes along with the question would some LFS staff expect more from their employers if the job required more than a rudimentary knowledge of fish and the ability to fulfill basic menial tasks.

Ps; This is by no means aimed at all LFS or LFS staff, just the bad ones i've experienced.
Nor is the use of 'menial tasks' aimed at all LFS employees.

 

[stang1]

Sadly, some lfs do condone cycling with fish and I think it's awful. I've had many customers come to buy fish after only having their tank set up for 48 hours because they haven't been told about cycling.
We make a point of asking customers how long their tank has been set up for and whether the water has been tested. We also ask them to bring a water sample in to be tested to make sure the water is safe. Any signs of ammonia, nitrite etc,. then we explain to the customer about cycling and ask them to come back in a few days with a new water sample.
We ahve encountered a couple of stroppy customers who don't like being told they can't have fish and aren't interested in the reasons why. Sadly, the chances are they end up going somewhere else to buy the fish with no regard for their welfare.

 

[GRJ]

I did an impulse buy with my tank, the lfs gave me a care sheet which told me to set it up, leave it a week and then come and have your water tested and get some fish, innitial stocking suggested was 10-12 fish!!! I did what they said and had my water tested and was told i had nitrite but not enough and pick some fish! Its all wrong really, they should give you the facts about the nitrogen cycle ect, but they are only interested in money. I bought all sorts of useless stuff to aid cycling but none of it worked and i lost some fish along the way. I found a small LFS who were very clued up and put me on the right track, but the tried to get me to convert to marines! Its laughable its so bad. I got all the best advice from this forum about how to sort my cycle out using the good old water change water chang water change method and it worked luckily. I now keep spare filter media in my filter just in case and i am currently setting up a mbuna tank, but this time properly. I try to help people in the same position that i was in as much as i can on the forum, but ultimatley somepeople dont want to hear the truth. I advise as much as i can anyway and i feel as if i am doing something good by doing it. We cant change the world overnight but maybe push people in the right direction. They either listen or they dont, but at least we have tried. The problem lies not in all the LFs's but most are just out to make money. They should tell people to research a little before diving in and people should act more responsibly before buyig. I learnt the hard way, but at least i learnt! Gra

 

[stang1]

You are right about telling people to research and many people seem to do that nowadays. The sad thing is, they go to their lfs expecting good advice but don't always get it. One of the reasons that I wanted to work at my lfs was because they make sure that they give good advice and refuse to sell fish if the water quality isn't right.