Nitrite Stage Of Cycling- What To Do And What Not To Do - Help Please

[DRB]

G'day all
 
So last night my female dwarf gourami died, i am pretty sure this was my fault, as when i checked my levels this morning my ammonia was finally at 0ppm (hooray for that), however my nitrite.. well my nitrite read about 2-5ppm, according to the API Freshwater Master Test Kit I used, which I think the shades of purple that indicate 1ppm through to 5+ppm are VERY similar, so a bit hard to tell exactly.
So as of now, I'm a bit confused as what to do next to get through this safely.
 
Here are some of the details...
 
I'm on day 12 of a cycle with fish. 
I know alot of people prefer fishless, and so may I if that had been what i'd done, but i haven't, so let's work with that.
 
As I said, my ammonia seems to have hit zero, but my nitrite is peaking.
Tonight I did a 50% water change to try and drop it down to safer levels, added some aquarium salts to try and soften the nitrite parameters a little more, and added a 4 times dose of Prime (which says you can do in Nitrite emergencies to "detoxify" the Nitrite).
But still it's reading about 1ppm or over (again, cant be too sure due to the test kit)..
 
So a few questions here..
 

• say my nitrite is now "detoxified" from the prime overdose, will this still read as nitrites on my API test kit, or should the kit read 0 if they are detoxified?

 

• If the Nitrites are in fact detoxified, does this mean they are useless to the cycle and may hamper its progress? The info on the Prime informs me that it makes them non toxic to fish and easier for bacteria to consume, so from this it would sound that they are still going to continue the cycle, but I'm just not sure as that doesn't sound right..

 

• How should I go about water changes during the Nitrite stage of the cycle, as I have not read anything on them from the resources found here. Are they only in emergencies? Should they occur regularly as in the ammonia stage?

 

• I have read that ammonia should be supplemented once in the nitrite stage, but this was in the articles on fishless cycles, what should I do since my cycle includes fish? Will continuing feeding the fish add the ammonia needed, or should I (as I have read elsewhere) stop feeding my fish while I right now have a spike in the nitrite and perhaps supplement it another way?

 
Anyway, hope some of you here can shed light on all of this, I know this is a rather long post but I'd much rather ask it all and look like a blatant rookie than not ask and never know. Thanks heaps everyone.
 

 

[fluttermoth]

• say my nitrite is now "detoxified" from the prime overdose, will this still read as nitrites on my API test kit, or should the kit read 0 if they are detoxified?

They will still show up on a test.
 

• If the Nitrites are in fact detoxified, does this mean they are useless to the cycle and may hamper its progress? The info on the Prime informs me that it makes them non toxic to fish and easier for bacteria to consume, so from this it would sound that they are still going to continue the cycle, but I'm just not sure as that doesn't sound right..

It is right, but I wouldn't rely on Prime to detoxify nitrite, I'd be doing water changes to bring it down to zero.
 

• How should I go about water changes during the Nitrite stage of the cycle, as I have not read anything on them from the resources found here. Are they only in emergencies? Should they occur regularly as in the ammonia stage?

I would be doing water changes to keep the nitrite as close to zero as possible, and not rely on the detoxification of the Prime, which is going to be temporary at best.
 

• I have read that ammonia should be supplemented once in the nitrite stage, but this was in the articles on fishless cycles, what should I do since my cycle includes fish? Will continuing feeding the fish add the ammonia needed, or should I (as I have read elsewhere) stop feeding my fish while I right now have a spike in the nitrite and perhaps supplement it another way?

You don't supplement ammonia or nitrite for fish in cycles; you want to keep them both as low as possible; certainly no more than 0.25ppm. It will make your cycle slower, but it's the only way to safeguard your fish. Keeping feeding to a minimum helps to stop either ammonia or nitrite building up too fast.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

I would like to point you to a read on another forum. What I am specifically pointing you to are my posts there. Fortunately the forum is one of those to which this site permits links http/www.planetcatfish.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=38967
 
The thread is about a nitrite issue in a 1500 gal. pond.
 
Also it is a bad idea to dose 4 times any dechlor during a cycle, it slows the cycle. It should only ever be used as a last resort.
 
Here is what SeaChem says on this, and I would add that their evidence is not enough for me by a long shot:

 
A: The detoxification of nitrite and nitrate by Prime (when used at elevated levels) is not well understood from a mechanistic standpoint. The most likely explanation is that the nitrite and nitrate is removed in a manner similar to the way ammonia is removed; i.e. it is bound and held in a inert state until such time that bacteria in the biological filter are able to take a hold of it, break it apart and use it. Two other possible scenarios are reduction to nitrogen (N2) gas or conversion into a benign organic nitrogen compound.

I wish we had some more "concrete" explanation, but the end result is the same, it does actually detoxify nitrite and nitrate. This was unexpected chemically and thus initially we were not even aware of this, however we received numerous reports from customers stating that when they overdosed with Prime they were able to reduce or eliminate the high death rates they experienced when their nitrite and nitrate levels were high. We have received enough reports to date to ensure that this is no fluke and is in fact a verifiable function of the product.

from http/www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/Prime.html
 
You did right re adding salt. Get the extra prime out of your tank via a big water change and then dose only at the normal amount as a dechlor when needed. The level of salt needed in fw to counteract nitrite is to add enoough to produce a chloride concentration 10x the ppm (or mg/l) of the nitrite tested.

 

[DRB]

Cheers guys thanks heaps, did about a 75% water change this morning, nitrite dropped to below 0.25ppm (Is that safe?), and then added the appropriate amount of salts again after, and only the required amount of conditioner (no extra dosing).
 
Another question, will plant food such as flourish affect the cycle/nitrite parameters?