Newbie Questions (filter Light Plants)

[supermonkey]

Hi All,

So glad I have found this place - has answered quite a few of my questions already.

I have a few more & would be very grateful of your help...

I've read on here that Filter manufactures over estimate the capacity, I just wondered how accurate Fluval are? My tank is just over a 100 litres & will probably hold about 90 litres of waters taking into account plants, gravel, ornaments & water level. I was set on a Fluval U2 & I really dont want to go for a U3 if I dont have to.

I'm completely baffled by lighting. I've been told I wont need lights on all day as the tank will get some day light. So in that case, cheap lighting should be all I need. Anyone got any recommendations? I'm tempted by Aquaray LEDs & I did read that they might save me money!

Plants - I've seen good prices at plantsalive.co.uk here & here

Do these look ok? They don't have to be amazing, just easy to grow etc.

Thanks!

 

[rabbut]

Fluvals are as good as anyone else with their internal recommendations, but very poor with their external recommendations...

Looking at the spec, you'd get away with it on a light stocking (sticking to 1" per gallon with smaller fish), but need the U3 for that sized tank for medium-to-heavy stockings

With light, it's best to limit the amount of natural light the tank gets, as natural light tends to lead to algae blooms. Aim for about 8 hours a day for plants. The strength of lighting you need depends on the exact plant species you want to keep. In many cases, with easy low-light plants, a single T8 strip light will be fine Aquarays aren't worth the asking price IMO. They certainly will revolutionise lighting, with five spots that are equidistant from each other to place plants/corals under, on im-practically narrow beams. On a FW tank, with them a long way off the surface, you may get away with them, but they aren't really a sound investment IMO

All the best
Rabbut

 

[jmkgreen]

Filter: Yes they tend to be optimistic. A bit like their claim of how much water then chuck out in in an hour - that figure is normally just the pump, without hoses and sponges/etc to force the water through first. Cut 40% off manufacturer's claims and you're looking more realistic. One exception may be Eheim (premium brand in Europe) which in testing shows far more accurate claims.

Lights - naturally light will not be sufficient for plants. They need more. Shove the tank in front of a window with natural light and you'll give yourself an algae headache.

Plants - do yourself another favour and hit the planted tanks section of this forum. More info about plants, lights and chemistry then you'll ever thought possible, plus a ton of help.

 

[supermonkey]

thanks for your replies... i will have to ponder the filter and will hop over to the plants board now.

 

[waterdrop]

The plant guys are probably going to recommend closer to 10x turnover rather than 5x in order to get your plants "waving in the breeze." That's going to put the flow rates closer to 1000 L/H than 500 L/H for you, which probably means larger externals than maybe you've been looking at. An extra powerhead can also be added to move some of the flow lower in the tank and to allow the filter flow rate to perhaps be a little lower. This is what's done for the heavily planted tanks you can see in their planted tank picture sections.

External filters allow you to add to the media volume (the most important parameter) without subtracting from your swimming and viewing volume.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[supermonkey]

thanks for that. more useful info. I will be getting an internal filter though

 

[waterdrop]

thanks for that. more useful info. I will be getting an internal filter though

Then I'd maybe think about a "low-light" approach with respect to the plants. Light is the "gas-pedal" on the plant growth truck, rev it up too high and the truck will careen around the steep mountain curves, threatening to soak up all the CO2 and nutrients before they can be replenished. If you stay down below 2 watts/USg (roughly judging with T8 or similar type lighting) then you'll probably be within the lowlight approach region. Use "easy" plants, perhaps java ferns, annubias, some of the cryptocorynes, perhaps an amazon sword. Then use liquid carbon as your CO2 source and a skimpy nutrient plan with weekly water changes. Hopefully this will help you with how to start asking the plant questions.. the plant guys of course can do a much better job helping you taylor it more precisely.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[supermonkey]

thanks for that. more useful info. I will be getting an internal filter though

Then I'd maybe think about a "low-light" approach with respect to the plants. Light is the "gas-pedal" on the plant growth truck, rev it up too high and the truck will careen around the steep mountain curves, threatening to soak up all the CO2 and nutrients before they can be replenished. If you stay down below 2 watts/USg (roughly judging with T8 or similar type lighting) then you'll probably be within the lowlight approach region. Use "easy" plants, perhaps java ferns, annubias, some of the cryptocorynes, perhaps an amazon sword. Then use liquid carbon as your CO2 source and a skimpy nutrient plan with weekly water changes. Hopefully this will help you with how to start asking the plant questions.. the plant guys of course can do a much better job helping you taylor it more precisely.

~~waterdrop~~

thanks for all the info! could i just ask why the filter being internal leads to a low light tank? Thanks

 

[supermonkey]

Hello, so do you think this would be ok?

[URL="http/www.plantsalive.co.uk/index.php?_a=...mp;productId=43"]http/www.plantsalive.co.uk/index.php?_a=...mp;productId=43[/URL]

back to the filters - the actual tank size is 107 litres, and main contents will be guppies, cardinals and maybe a little more. If I had say 20-25 small fish in it (or perhaps lower qty but a few slightly larger ones) would the U2 be sufficient?

I would happily go for the U3, but I'm concerned that I could cause a problem if it's too powerful for the tank!

 

[waterdrop]

thanks for that. more useful info. I will be getting an internal filter though

Then I'd maybe think about a "low-light" approach with respect to the plants. Light is the "gas-pedal" on the plant growth truck, rev it up too high and the truck will careen around the steep mountain curves, threatening to soak up all the CO2 and nutrients before they can be replenished. If you stay down below 2 watts/USg (roughly judging with T8 or similar type lighting) then you'll probably be within the lowlight approach region. Use "easy" plants, perhaps java ferns, annubias, some of the cryptocorynes, perhaps an amazon sword. Then use liquid carbon as your CO2 source and a skimpy nutrient plan with weekly water changes. Hopefully this will help you with how to start asking the plant questions.. the plant guys of course can do a much better job helping you taylor it more precisely.

~~waterdrop~~

thanks for all the info! could i just ask why the filter being internal leads to a low light tank? Thanks

Having an internal style filter doesn't necessarily lead to needing a "low-light" approach, I didn't mean to imply that. Its just that it does tend to be very useful to divide ones approach to a planted tank into two broad categories (these are mainstream categories, so I'm not including more exotic things like an NPT with soil substrate.) The two approaches are low or high light. The high-light tanks are pushed by the lighting to need most of the trappings of a high tech planted tank: high-wattage lights, pressurized CO2, EI fertilization, high water movement, etc. - all these things can entail sizable investement in learning and equipment.

Don't really mean to have gone off on all this planted tank stuff without a re-check of what you're really after. Looking back at the thread, it may have been jmkgreen's statement to go off to the planted tank forum for info and that may have sent us in this more technical direction about plants. There are all sorts of levels to this stuff. You might just be a person trying to start a beginner tank and have a few plants in it. On the other hand you may have an actual interest in "planted tanks" which can almost be a separate hobby from tropical fish keeping. So a lot depends on your goals.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[supermonkey]

hi again, thanks for the info.

Well I do like the idea of few plants in there and require these to be real (or at least some anyway), but I am not going for the look of green tank where you cannot see the background.

I acually like the look of the planting in this tank : http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=281345

I have now ordered a Fluval U3 filter based on all the recommendations. I just hope that this isn't too powerful for my tank as it's says from 90 litres upwards and mine is 107 without taking water level, gravel, plants and ornaments into consideration.

Am still really struggling with the lighting. I know I've been told that AquaRays are probably a waste of money, but I'm seeing it'll cost me £50 for the lighting and I can get an AquaRay for £80 - surely this will pay for itself after the electricty savings!

 

[rabbut]

Erm, no, you'll need like 4-5 units to get a good cover, as their optics are too narrow. A lot of us marine keepers like them, but we'd have like 10-12 of them in a hood for a tank of the same size, so narrow optics wouldn't be an issue. By the time you have a good light spread in your tank, you'll be in the "high light" area, and using twice as much power the single T8 or T5 tube you'd actually need for your "low light" application...

All the best
Rabbut

 

[supermonkey]

Erm, no, you'll need like 4-5 units to get a good cover, as their optics are too narrow. A lot of us marine keepers like them, but we'd have like 10-12 of them in a hood for a tank of the same size, so narrow optics wouldn't be an issue. By the time you have a good light spread in your tank, you'll be in the "high light" area, and using twice as much power the single T8 or T5 tube you'd actually need for your "low light" application...

All the best
Rabbut

Thanks for that, makes a lot of sense now! Am I right that T5s are a little more efficient? Just finding it hard to price them up, anywhere you'd recommend?

Cheers

 

[rabbut]

Well, Arcadia do the best T5 and T8 light units, and you get more output per Watt with T5 than you do T8. I'd look for a 1-2 tube Arcadia unit on either T8 or T5 lights for your set-up. They are easily available on Ebay most of the time. Silver Sun also do good linear tube units

All the best
Rabbut

 

[supermonkey]

Well, Arcadia do the best T5 and T8 light units, and you get more output per Watt with T5 than you do T8. I'd look for a 1-2 tube Arcadia unit on either T8 or T5 lights for your set-up. They are easily available on Ebay most of the time. Silver Sun also do good linear tube units

All the best
Rabbut

Thanks, thats great... what do you think of these?

<a href="http/cgi.ebay.co.uk/Arcadia-single-light...id=p3286.c0.m14" target="_blank">http/cgi.ebay.co.uk/Arcadia-single-light...id=p3286.c0.m14</a>
<a href="http/cgi.ebay.co.uk/Arcadia-T5-J5-Plant-...id=p3286.c0.m14" target="_blank">http/cgi.ebay.co.uk/Arcadia-T5-J5-Plant-...id=p3286.c0.m14</a>

Do I need a longer length light do you think? tank is 91cm long.

Just found these:
[URL="http/www.charterhouse-aquatics.co.uk/cat...tube-p-683.html"]http/www.charterhouse-aquatics.co.uk/cat...tube-p-683.html[/URL]
[URL="http/www.charterhouse-aquatics.co.uk/cat...ller-p-723.html"]http/www.charterhouse-aquatics.co.uk/cat...ller-p-723.html[/URL]
[URL="http/www.charterhouse-aquatics.co.uk/cat...ller-p-731.html"]http/www.charterhouse-aquatics.co.uk/cat...ller-p-731.html[/URL]

am also pricing up the plant food, is this essential for this type of tank?

thanks