Newbie Planter

[Pabs311]

ok, so i have a 20 gallon tank right now. i'm trying for the all natural look but am disappointed with the way plastic plants look. i'm thinking about going for a fully live planted tank but am a bit nervous. i read some of the pinned topics but none seem to help for starting up a planted tank.

soooo, i have a few questions for u experienced planters out there....

1) i know i will need a co2 system of some sort, but am thinking about making a DIY system. How do i make one for a 20 gallon tank? anyone have a good website or link to a previous topic on this?

2) second, i have mostly livebearers in my tank right now along with some corys, with these fish be ok in a planted tank?

3) where do i get started with plants? what types? how many do i add at a time?

i'm a bit nervous about the whole planted tank thing, but love the way it looks. any advice would be very helpful. thanks in advance...

 

[FishBeast]

Pretty much everything you need to know is in these forums somewhere. I would recommend using the search option. Scroll down to the bottom of the screen in the forum topics list. I am the same boat as you. I have a much larger tank and a DIY co2 setup wont be much good and I don't want to be cycling bottles all of the time.

You will need 2 watts per gallon or more of light. Make sure you get globes of the right spectrum. Grow lights.

You will need a substrate. Which is (correct me if I am wrong) derived from very old red clay from ancient continents. The reason being that it contains less phosphorus. Substrate contains trace elements which plants need. You put about 1/2 and inch of it on the bottom of your tank and then gravel on top of that. About 1-2 inches I believe. I am not totally certain but I think the idea is to introduce plants slowly into your tank because the the tank needs time to allow beneficial bacteria to grow which will then kick start your 3 part cycle. I am regurgitating things I have been reading from my research so bare with me.

Do a search for cycle in the forums because you will need to know more about it to answer your question about introducing plants slowly. I am new to this so if I try to get to technical I will surely get something wrong so I can only recommend doing alot of searches aswell as make use of the pinned topics at the top of the planted forums list.

Happy growing!

 

[Pabs311]

this is seeming like alot more work than i had thought. i might have to wait till i get another tank, i don't wanna have to totally redo my tank when i have fish in it. i didn't know i was going to have to replace the substrate i have.

 

[Gav935]

2 wpg is a lot of light, there are a lot of plants that will grow under far less. The thing is that high light quickly exposes any shortcomings in other areas like flow, co2 and fert dosing.

 

[aaronnorth]

1) i know i will need a co2 system of some sort, but am thinking about making a DIY system. How do i make one for a 20 gallon tank? anyone have a good website or link to a previous topic on this?

CO2 isnt always compulsary, depending on your light levels, you may, or may not need CO2,

total wattage of lighting?
Diameter (T5, T8 etc)

but here are a couple of guides,
http/www.aquatic-eden.com/2006/10/build-...-generator.html
http/www.fishforever.co.uk/carbondioxide.html

2) second, i have mostly livebearers in my tank right now along with some corys, with these fish be ok in a planted tank?

yes,

3) where do i get started with plants? what types? how many do i add at a time?

"buy cheap, buy twice"

bear that in mind. I would get aqua fleur plants. The are about £3 per pot, however, you get about 6-10 well established plants in each, once divided.
£3 seems cheap, but once compared to other supliers such as javaplants and plantsalive which are about £1 for about 5 plants it does seem dear, but IME you get tiny plants, and species such as java fern and cryptocoryne come with just 1 leaf It takes them longer to establish.

Add as many as you can afford. I can reccomend some plants once we know some other things.

you need to cover Lights (no more than 2wpg), CO2(depends on lighting levels), Nutrients(needed in any setup), Flow(10x tank turnover reccomended)
If you have those 4 things you will be fine.

You will need 2 watts per gallon or more of light. Make sure you get globes of the right spectrum. Grow lights.

i wouldnt go above 2wpg, once you do controlling the amounts of CO2 & nutrients added gets harder, and so does algae control. Also, any light can be used, cheap tubes are available at lampspecs.co.uk

 

[Pabs311]

ok so here's what i gathered about my tank:
it's a 20 gallon tank
15w florescent light
125 gallon/hour filter

i don't know if u guys will need any other info on the tank.

if i go planted, am i going to have to add a new substrate besides the gravel i have now?

 

[Bobtastic]

I do think that a "Beginners Guide to Planted Tanks" would definitely be a useful thread/pin.

I'm wanting to setup a planted tank, but not sure if I want the hassel of having to add CO2... I guess I'm wanting a moderately planted tank to compliment rock/wood hardscaping. But what I think is moderate and what I think is heavy may be different to what other ppl concider to be moderate or heavy...

 

[aaronnorth]

you dont need CO2,
a nutrient rich substrate helps, but it doesnt matter if you dont use one, it just means you will have to dose the water column more heavily. The nutrient substrate is like a 'back up' incase there isnt enough nutrients in the water, or incase you miss a dose.

Some easy plants:

cryptocoryne
echinodorous
hygrophillia
java moss
moss balls
vallisneria
anubias
java fern

There is plenty of different varieties available form the above, and all are easy. Please note most plants are grown emerged, so therefore when you plant them they may rot, but they are producing aquatic leaves. This can take up to 2 months depending on how fast growth is.

I would also buy a fertiliser and dose weekly. Something like tropica plant nutrition+ or seachem flourish.

Any problems then just ask.

I do think that a "Beginners Guide to Planted Tanks" would definitely be a useful thread/pin.

I'm wanting to setup a planted tank, but not sure if I want the hassel of having to add CO2... I guess I'm wanting a moderately planted tank to compliment rock/wood hardscaping. But what I think is moderate and what I think is heavy may be different to what other ppl concider to be moderate or heavy...

i might write one when i finish my exams, explaining the basics, then providing links to the mroe in depth articles.

 

[CKutz]

do it aaron do it!!

i think there's a ton of people on here that would like to start a planted tank, and i think it's more difficult to find beginner info than some of you planted guys think...we are often referred to, "topics in the planted section" (which rarely give all the info beginners need) or other websites that give brief overviews..it'd be really nice to have a bit more of a guide from a trusted member..and an understanding of what you really NEED and what you don't..as evident in the varying responses on this thread, there is quite a bit of confusion about it.

i "tracked" this topic, just to mooch any info i could get, because i also want to start a planted tank and am having difficulty getting started..for example..i've got 3 sets of light for a 10 gal..and not a clue which to use. 2x 15 W incandescent,2x 15 W incandescent "plant growth", or 1x 11W T8 (i think) fluorescent...or do i need more wattage than all of them give me (cause those incandescent do get warm), in which case could i get to fluorescent things that screw in like incandescent?

 

[aaronnorth]

2x 15 W incandescent,2x 15 W incandescent "plant growth", or 1x 11W T8 (i think) fluorescent...or do i need more wattage than all of them give me (cause those incandescent do get warm), in which case could i get to fluorescent things that screw in like incandescent?

i would go with 2 x 15w incandescants although they aren't great. but 11w is on the low side.

 

[three-fingers]

2x 15 W incandescent,2x 15 W incandescent "plant growth", or 1x 11W T8 (i think) fluorescent...or do i need more wattage than all of them give me (cause those incandescent do get warm), in which case could i get to fluorescent things that screw in like incandescent?

i would go with 2 x 15w incandescants although they aren't great. but 11w is on the low side.

Your saying 11w florescent light is on the low side, yet you would recommend 15w incandescent (which is considerably less light)?

Go for the largest flourescant screw in bulbs that will fit in the fixture, "daylight" and "cool-white" colours look generally best, IME the best result os from sing one of each (though this may look silly if it results in one side of the tank being a different colour from the other .

I personally prefer linear tubes (like T8's) since they give a much more even spread of light though, they would most likely be a better option.

 

[Pabs311]

aaronnorth i have to agree it would be of great help if u got a topic pinned on how to get a planted tank started. cause i am 100% confused. the whole light thing? watts per gallon? co2? flow rate? i'm thinkin about just dealing with plastic plants for the rest of my aquarium career.

 

[CKutz]

three fingers,
there's 2 15 W incandescents, does that make it better than the 1 11W linear? or are linears really that much more efficient lightwise?

see this is the stuff us noobs don't get haha

i just put in 1 15W "plant growth" (their from walmart, so i have no idea what spectrums or temps it actually is) and 1 15W normal. the plant growth seems more white, the regular..is like a more yellowish, "soft"
I had the fluorescent light on earlier and it gives the tank a totally different look, much..whiter...more pale..kinda brighter.
visually..in my opinion the incandescents look nicer. haha the fluorescent makes it look like an office building! haha

thanks for the help guys!
...sorry for the hijack..but i think it could help us all?

 

[three-fingers]

there's 2 15 W incandescents, does that make it better than the 1 11W linear? or are linears really that much more efficient lightwise?

IME ,yes.

Looking at the data on the net about how efficient fluorescents are compared to incandescent bulbs, it seems to generally be in the region of 3 to 5 times as efficient.

That, and a point source like a regular incandescent bulb will not give as good a spread of light either.

Florescent screw in bulbs are better than incandescent, but in an aquarium situation not as good as the equivalent wattage of linear tube due to the spread of light.

How good the 11W tube is will also depend on if you use a reflector, and what type of tube it is (T8, T5 etc.).

Pabs311 - It's like any subject, it can be incredibly easy if you don't want to get into it too much and are given good advice, but if you want to try harder plant species or learn more details it will take some reading .

In your situation, I would start off without CO2 and just buy easy plants that suit your setup as it already is. Then you should have no problems.

You can do additional things that will make it easier to avoid algae and get faster growing/more demanding plants - like increasing the flow rate around the tank, adding decent ferts, increasing light and adding CO2, but you don't need to do those things to grow plants .

Everything aaronnorth suggested will do great.

I would be trying to DIY more light into the hood, what are the dimensions of the the tank? For a 20gal, one 18w T8 tube would be pretty good (low light, but still perfectly OK). If you can somehow only fit in 11w tubes, can you fit in 2?

 

[aaronnorth]

2x 15 W incandescent,2x 15 W incandescent "plant growth", or 1x 11W T8 (i think) fluorescent...or do i need more wattage than all of them give me (cause those incandescent do get warm), in which case could i get to fluorescent things that screw in like incandescent?

i would go with 2 x 15w incandescants although they aren't great. but 11w is on the low side.

Your saying 11w florescent light is on the low side, yet you would recommend 15w incandescent (which is considerably less light)?

i reccomended 30 w of incandescants! (2 x 15w)