Newbie Needs An Expert Or Two :d

[ToucheTurtle]

Hi folks

, I've been saving up and its finally time to buy a tank. I will be getting a 180 litre tank as from what I've read that should cover my needs.
I just want to make sure of a few things so I thought I'd seek the help of those in the know

This site looks good and active so if it's friendly you won't get rid of me

Well I suppose I should start with what I want in the tank, I want a Siamese Fighter and say a dozen to fifteen Cardinal Tetras, I have been assured by the chap in Pets At Home that these are OK together. Ideally I would like a varied array of species in the tank, I would love to add zebra snails and maybe 1 or 2 small frogs and shrimp but only if they are fine with the tetras and a fighter.

I guess I should number my questions to make answering them easier for you guys;

1.) Are Siamese Fighters and Cardinal Tetras going to get along?
2.) What else could I put in the same 180l tank with these? (Doesn't have to be fish - i.e. Can I add snails, shrimps, frogs etc. and if so how many)
3.) Would you recommend a particularly good guide for setting up and getting the water perfect before I introduce fish?
4.) What do I need for testing water?
5.) Considering I want Tetras and Fighters in my tank, Is there anything specific to my tank I should know?
6.) How often should I clean a tank of this size and how do I clean it safely and properly.
7.) Anything I'm missing that a newbie should know.

Sorry for the essay but I want to do it right.

Any help greatly appreciated.

Cheers, Touche.

*******EDIT*********
Sorry if this is in the wrong section I am on my tablet and site navigation is a bit tricky.

 

[The Taffy Apple]

Welcome to the forum.

Firstly, before you even think about what fish to get, you need to 'cycle' your filter...

Have a read here---> http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/277264-beginners-resource-center/
This will answer just about ANY query you may have. Take some time to read the useful articles that have been put together and let us know if you have any other questions.
Welcome to the hobby and remember...PATIENCE IS THE KEY !!!

Terry.

 

[BerryAttack]

i would say that the tetras and the fighter will get along, as long as their needs are met. the fighter, if happy and fed wont attack your tetras, but if there are small shrimps, he might go have fun with those. but again it all depends on the breed of shrimp.

just gotta remember one male fighter to every tank... you can throw in some females if you want, but 2+.. but they might breed sooo its really up to you

 

[Essjay]

I wouldn't keep female fighting fish in the same tank as a male. It might be possible in a tank as big as 180 litres, but it's not worth the risk.

The problem with fighting fish is that they have very variable personalities. You might find one that will get on with most other fish, but you might well end up with one that won't tolerate any tank mates at all, and might attack cardinals. A lot of fighters will eat shrimps, so you need to be careful you aren't spending your money on very expensive fighter food.
Personally, I would leave out the fighting fish, or get a 25 litre tank just for one male if you really want one. That would open up a lot more choice for other fish in your main tank.

I would also avoid frogs. They can be very hard to feed in a tank with fish. They are almost blind and find their food by smell. Fish are much better at finding food and the frogs may well starve. These animals also do better in a smallish tank by themselves.


To answer our other questions

3. See the fishless cycling guide in the beginner's resource centre that Taffy Apple gave you
4. A liquid reagent testing kit, there area few makes on the market. Avoid strip testers
6. Once the filter is cycled and you have fish, a once a week water change and gravel clean is about right

 

[ToucheTurtle]

Perfect I pick the tank up tomorrow and i'll pick up a testing kit.

Thanks for the help

Lot of reading to do

Cheers all

 

[Flute]

Welcome to the forum! It's awesome that you're doing your research before you set your tank up!

If you definitely want betta (fighting fish), you could always go for a group of 6+ female betta; they would work much better than a male betta. As essjay said, I wouldn't recommend keeping males and females together (I've tried it, and it doesn't work). Males don't do very well with large tanks either, and their long fins mean that they have difficulty with swimming in deeper water. Long fins also mean that they're open to being nipped by other fish species. Although they don't have the elaborate fins of the males, females come in all different colours and you can still get different tail types. If you do like them, just be sure to get a big enough group to spread any aggression out between them all

 

[ToucheTurtle]

Well I suppose I just haven't seen that many different fish and they caught my eye, I just want something colorful and Someone said discus are hard work because I like them aswell, I think I can keep looking for the perfect thing to go with the tetras for a good few weeks, Its going to take time to get the water right then to add a few fish a week until Ive got my 15. Then Id want to let them settle for a week or 2 so could be 2 months before anything goes in with them. Plenty of time to decide, I'll just have to keep asking on here when I see something I like whether its plausible or not until I get a better idea.

 

[Essjay]

Its going to take time to get the water right then to add a few fish a week until Ive got my 15. Then Id want to let them settle for a week or 2 so could be 2 months before anything goes in with them.

Have you read the threads on fishless and fish-in cycling? If you expect to have a shoal of cardinals in two months' time by adding a few a week, that sounds like a fish-in cycle. Those are a lot of hard work as you will have to do water changes as and when necessary to keep the ammonia and nitrite levels under control.
If you do a fishless cycle, that is much better than doing a fish-in cycle. With this method, you add ammonia to simulate fish waste to grow the bacteria. Then you can add almost all the fish you want as soon as the cycle finishes. Fishless cycles do take several weeks, maybe even 3 months to complete so you'll have plenty of time to decide on fish while the filter is growing its bacteria (cycling).
If you've been listening to the man at the shop then you need to know that fish shop workers don't recommend fishless cycling, and possibly don't understand it. They'd much rather you spend your money replacing the fish that die during a fish-in cycle, medicine to cure the sick fish caused by poor water conditions during cycling or a magical bottle of bacteria which probably won't work. Fish-in cycles can be done successsfully, but the majority of shop workers won't tell you how to do one properly.

The first thing you need to know when starting a fish tank is don't believe the shop. There are some knowledgable fish shop workers but they tend to be few and far between. Don't believe it when they tell you to add a couple of fish, wait a week, add a couple more etc. Don't believe them when they say this fish will go well with that one in a tank that size. Instead, read the fishless and fish-in cycle threads in the beginners resource centre in the new freshwater tank section on here. And always research fish yourself before buying.

Sorry, rant over

I'm not sure if cardinals are the same, but I know that the related neon tetras don't do well in new tanks. If they are, you might want to leave cardinals till the last fish rather than put them in first.

 

[ToucheTurtle]

Thanks for the advice, I was going to to do a fishless cycle first and then add them a few at a time while i get used to keeping the water perfect.
The fishless cycle thread says all tanks are different when it comes to how long it takes so I was going to get the water right first.
I've decided not to go for a betta but I haven't decided what to go for, I like Endlers guppys too.

I have seen a few more fish I like and I have an idea of what i would want in my finished tank, Could anyone tell me if these would be ok together in a 180l (40gallon) tank;

10 Cardinal tetra
10 Endlers Guppy
1 queen arabesque
1 Red tail shark

That would be my dream tank and from what Ive read they like the same conditions and should be ok in a community tank.

Any thoughts?

 

[Essjay]

With a fishless cycle, you grow enough bacteria to deal with the ammonia from a tank full of fish before getting any fish. If you only get a few fish, most of those bacteria you have spent two or three months growing will die of starvation. That's why a dose rate of 5ppm ammonia was chosen, as a tank full of fish will make less ammonia than that, so that by the time the filter can remove 5ppm ammonia and the nitrite made from it in 12 hours you have more than enough bacteria for all the fish you want.
If you've done a fishless cycle properly (by adding ammonia solution until the bacteria grow) you won't need to get used to keeping the water perfect, the bacteria in the filter will do that for you.


Endlers are nice little fish. The endlers on sale in shops are all endler-guppy hybrids (you have to go to a specialist breeder for pure endlers) but that doesn't detract from them in my opinion. You'll need either 10 males or 3 males, 7 females as all the common livebearers need at least 2 females for every male. And you'll have fry from each female every month, though they would most likely be eaten by their tankmates.

 

[ToucheTurtle]

Spot on, So if I do this fishless cycle, And I have my tank ready, How many should I add? All of the tetras and endlers in one go? Then wait to add a red tail?

Sorry for all the newb questions but I don't want to lose any fish.
Got my tank now and ordered a test kit so got to wait for that to be delivered, Looks like it will be the weekend before my tank even gets wet so Iv time to learn.
Ive ordered dechlorinator(2litres) and a test kit that apparently does 800 tests (£21 ebay).

I have some filter media and some stuff for fin rot and fungus.

Just got to test my water then I will be back on with more questions no doubt.

 

[CezzaXV]

If you do a proper fishless cycle, you can (in theory) add all of your stock all in one go. I'd probably add a little less than that, so adding all of the tetras and endlers, then others later sounds like a good plan.

I would be worried that the red tailed shark would grow too big for your tank though. Not heard of the green arabesque before.

Gouramis are very attractive fish, and there are some that are suitable for a community. Perhaps a group of 1M 2F dwarf gouramis? I had a dwarf gourami and he was great.

 

[LongS]

I wouldn't be put off buying a fighter if that is what you want there are plenty of ways to accommodate them, and it usually involves avoiding nippy barbs species. I personally wouldn't have a problem putting a fighter in with placid tetra or rasbora/danio species.

If you are looking for something quite striking i would also agree with cezza, gouramis are lovely fish if you have been put of fighters by cautious members. Check out the pearl gourami.

Keep us updated and welcome to the forum

 

[ScholasticSpastic]

Welcome to the forum! It's awesome that you're doing your research before you set your tank up!

If you definitely want betta (fighting fish), you could always go for a group of 6+ female betta; they would work much better than a male betta. As essjay said, I wouldn't recommend keeping males and females together (I've tried it, and it doesn't work). Males don't do very well with large tanks either, and their long fins mean that they have difficulty with swimming in deeper water. Long fins also mean that they're open to being nipped by other fish species. Although they don't have the elaborate fins of the males, females come in all different colours and you can still get different tail types. If you do like them, just be sure to get a big enough group to spread any aggression out between them all

I'm going to have to disagree with your statement about male bettas and large tanks. I'm keeping a double tail male betta in a 180 US gallon tank with pretty good flow right now and there are no areas of the tank in which he appears to have any trouble. It took him a couple of days to build up the muscle he'd lost sitting in a cup, but after that he's one of the most active, curious and engaging fish in the tank.

So I'm just not going to allow statements about male bettas doing poorly in larger tanks stand. The only difficulty is seeing that he gets fed. But hand-feeding him thawed frozen bloodworms resolves that issue nicely and the tank is large enough that he's able to supplement his diet by stalking through the grass and catching amphipods.