New To Tropics - My Story So Far Lol

[TRAGICTRAMP]

Hi, basically i bought a 2nd hand fluval edge 25l 2nd hand off a relative, i initially cycled it for 1 week before adding any fish, i then added 3 platys, the 1 platy (ginger) decided he was going to be the boss and quite often nipped at the other 2 until the point that 1 was slightly injured on its tail, i treated this with fin rot but at the time didnt know that the carbon filter basically stripped the meds straight out of the water, the lfs (petsathome) said that to curb gingers anger, i should add some more females, which seemed to sort him out. A week later i added 3 cichlids, well i think thats them and 1 mollie, so totalling 5 platy, 3 cichlids and 1 mollie, the mollie decided that the earlier weaker platy was his target and after a short struggle in the hospital cheapo tank i bought it died.

The cichlids then developed white spot, but i believe they brought this into the tank with them from the lfs, not petsathome, so i treated the whole tank, for ich and it has now cleared up, i have done lots of water changes and maybe too many tbh, as i moved the tank around onto different desks, and originally had driftwood which left unsightly tannins in the water, i also think i have been overfeeding them as i have had to clean a lot of waste. They all seem healthy at the moment and quite happy, the mollie does get a bit mad now and again, but seems to have settled down.

The tank has sand substrate with gravel above it and currently 1 plant as the original plant outgrew the tank and wasnt too pretty, i have the heater set to 25c, i found my assasin snail today and am still unsure if he is alive.

I finally got a master test kit and before todays water change, the readings were:

low range ph : 7.2-7.6
high range ph: 7.4
ammonia:2-3
nitrite:2-5
nitrate:0

this is obviously very poor readings, so i immediately done a 25-30% water change, with pretreated water, obviouslt sucking up any excrement/foodwaste i could find.

I know i am probably overstocked for such a small tank, but at present they all seem happy and fine, i have ordered some java moss, willow moss and amazon frogbit to help with the toxins.

any advice going forward would be handy, even if its just to slate me for being a noob

 

[fluttermoth]

Well, I'm just going to tell you what you already know in your heart; you have WAAAAAY too many fish in there.

You need to do more water changes (as long as you pretreat and temperature match the new water, it's not really possible to do too many water changes) to get the ammonia and nitrite down; they need to NEVER get above 0.25ppm, or you'll cause long term health problems and possibly even kill the fish.

I dread to try and find out what kind of cichlids you have, but we must, although there are NO cichlids that are suitable for an Edge. Some cichlids (and there are hundreds of different species) can grow very big and some are very, very aggressive. Describe them fully, or even better take a pic we can have a look at.

In fact none of the fish you have are suitable for an Edge; you want small fish, that grow to around an inch or so when fully grown. My son has an Edge, and he's got five male Endler's and two amano shrimps in his

I'd try and get your shop/s to take the fish back, or get a bigger tank.

You might find the articles on 'the nitrogen cycle' and 'fish-in cycling' in our beginner's resource centre (the link for that is in my sig) useful reads.

 

[TRAGICTRAMP]

 

[fluttermoth]

Those aren't cichlids; they're black skirt/widow tetras. They can be very nippy towards other fish if not kept in groups of six+, which you really don't have space for.

At least they're not oscars, or Malawis, which is what I was afraid of!

 

[TRAGICTRAMP]

cheers lol, i totally forgot what they were called so tried to guess via google pics, they dont appear to be nippy, the mollie was but he/she has chilled out now.
So basically im being cruel trying to keep all these together in such a small tank, they are behaving fine and all seem in good health, i dont know what petsathome are like for taking fish back and i only got the platys from their, the rest i bought in a garden centre quite a distance away. Im obviously not going to flush living healthy beings as im an ott animal lover (i try to save flys when they land in water etc lol)

 

[fluttermoth]

Well, I don't want to upset you or make you feel bad, but being brutally honest, yes, I'm sorry, it is cruel to keep most of those fish in an Edge....

Just for instance, the black widow tetras, in the wild, would be living in shoals of hundreds, if not thousands of individuals. When kept in smaller numbers, they probably suffer a constant low level stress which not only makes them nippy, but almost certainly shortens their lifespans.

You'd probably be ok with just the platies (although, at two - three inches fully grown, they're also too big, IMO), but the molly should grow to four inches in length, and the Edge just isn't big enough to give it the swimming space it needs.

There's also your water quality to consider; the levels of ammonia and nitrite you have are potentially lethal to fish; you need to be doing some very large (leaving just enough water for the fish to swim upright) water changes to bring those levels down, and with so many fish in there, they'll go back up very quickly. You're probably looking at doing twice daily, 75/80% water changes until your tank cycles.

Please don't take it too badly; very, very many people in this hobby started out with small tanks, poorly stocked; often as a result of shops that care more about their profit margin than the well being of the fish

If your shop won't take them in, see if you can find a branch of Maidenhead Aquatics; they'll take in fish, even if they weren't brought from them (or so I've been told) or put an ad up here, or on Aquarist Classified/Gumtree/Freecycle, and someone should take them.

 

[TRAGICTRAMP]

looking at maidenhead aquatics, it was them who suggested i could add the molly and the black widow tetra's to the platys i already had, ill give them a call and see if their take some back, but they obviously gave me some very poor advice, and would they put the fish back in or kill them as they may have unknown diseases etc.

 

[fluttermoth]

Once you've been on this site a while, you'll no longer be in the least bit surprised at shops giving out poor advice

They won't kill them no, quarantine them and put them back out for sale, I would imagine.

What you really need to focus on right now is your water quality though. I'd be doing another 75/80% change immediately, if I had readings even a third of those for ammonia/nitrite.

 

[TRAGICTRAMP]

cheers again, what can i realistically put in an edge? I seem to find conflicting suggestions, is it basically neon teras and cardinal tetra's and maybe some shrimp?

 

[fluttermoth]

Oh, gosh no!

There are loads of small fish that would do well in the Edge!

Here's a few, common and slightly rarer, to whet your tastebuds, metaphorically speaking, of course!

Chilli rasboras
Ember tetras
Dwarf emerald rasboras
glowlight danios (but NOT zebra danios)
male Endlers or guppies
green neons
glowlight tetras
celestial pearl danios

 

[TRAGICTRAMP]

todays results

ammonia:0
nitrite:5
nitrate:5

still trying to get hold of maidenhead to see if their take the fish back!

 

[fluttermoth]

That's better, but the nitrite is still far too high. I'd do another two, back to back, water changes now to get it down further.

You really do need to get it as near to zero as possible; certainly no higher than 0.25ppm.

 

[TRAGICTRAMP]

eventually got hold of them, their taking the molly and the tetra's back, and said they sell bacteria balls which should help the tank cycle more quickly?

 

[fluttermoth]

Well, that's good news. I don't know if the bacterial balls will help, I'd need more info on them, but they might be worth a try.

 

[TRAGICTRAMP]

what about specific products to equalise the nitrite?, as well as the water changes obviously. i know its best to get a natural cycle working, but i need a good start.