New To The Fish Busines...help!

simon10

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Hi im new to keeping fish as pets, i know this is the tropical fish forums, but i am seeking some advice. basically i have coldwater fish i believe they are both goldfish and they came from a friends pond. i have a tank and a filter thats all, is there anything else i would need? or what plants should i be looking to buy for the tank.

Any help would be much appreciated, thanks
 
Do you know how much water your tank holds? Like a 10 gallon, 30 gallon, etc. Did you cycle the tank first?

hi it is a 25 litre tank, no i didnt cycle the tank, i have had the fish for about 2-3 months now and everytime i clean the tank i empty it out and just put new water in with a little bit of the old water that i took the fish out from
 
Hi Simon.

Ive been keeping coldwater fish for 9 years now.. so ive moved on to tropical.

Do you have any water conditioners.. such as Tetra Aqua Safe?

When you clean the tank, do a 25 - 30% water change, then fill the rest of your tank up with water with water conditioner in there.

How big are your goldfish?

Regards, CJ.
 
Hi Simon.

Ive been keeping coldwater fish for 9 years now.. so ive moved on to tropical.

Do you have any water conditioners.. such as Tetra Aqua Safe?

When you clean the tank, do a 25 - 30% water change, then fill the rest of your tank up with water with water conditioner in there.

How big are your goldfish?

Regards, CJ.

hi no all i have is the tank a filter and 2 goldfish! lol when you say do a 25-30% water change why is this? id say they are an inch- 2 inches
 
Hi there, there's another thread:

Recent Goldfish discussion

where goldfish tank size was discussed.

Agree with CeeJayy, you need to be using conditioner if you don't want to suddenly lose those beneficial bacteria that have probably built up from having that filter running a couple months, but the most serious thing is probably going to be re-homing them because of the size problem.

~~waterdrop~~
 
Right, you really need to get some kind of water conditioners. Putting fish in water from the tap can be harmful. Tap water has ammonia in it, that turns into nitrite. These 2 chemicals are extremely dangerous to fish and could kill them. The nitrite then turns into nitrate (notice the spelling) and this is less dangerous. Live plants can absorb nitrate.

When you first got your tank you should have idealy left it without no fish for about 3-4 weeks with the filter on.. with the tap conditioner in it. This sets up bacteria in your filter. When doing your water change you should only do 25-30% so the water still has alot of the bacteria in it. If i was you id go out tomorrow and buy a testing kit, some aqua safe. This is needed ASAP for the wellbeing of your fish!
 
Right, you really need to get some kind of water conditioners. Putting fish in water from the tap can be harmful. Tap water has ammonia in it, that turns into nitrite. These 2 chemicals are extremely dangerous to fish and could kill them. The nitrite then turns into nitrate (notice the spelling) and this is less dangerous. Live plants can absorb nitrate.

When you first got your tank you should have idealy left it without no fish for about 3-4 weeks with the filter on.. with the tap conditioner in it. This sets up bacteria in your filter. When doing your water change you should only do 25-30% so the water still has alot of the bacteria in it. If i was you id go out tomorrow and buy a testing kit, some aqua safe. This is needed ASAP for the wellbeing of your fish!

so puttin live plants in the tank will take the nitrates out, also you said ill need to buy some tap conditioner...any ideas on which plants i should get...what tap conditioner, thanks
 
I Have this:
1239316410.jpg
And i have these
1239316468.jpg


For a 25ltr tank you have to put 1 1/2 sections (youll see when you buy it) of aquasafe in your tank .. the stress coat removes chlorine, chloramines and ammonia and the zyme maintains good water quality. You wont need both.. i have both because i got the aquasafe in my new tank.

Get any plants you like the look of (Big ones at the back, smaller ones at the front) and bury them in the gravel or sand. If you dont have ornaments then get some hiding places for your fish. Its been proved not having nowhere to hide causes stress for fish.

Also ask someone in your LFS. Im not an expert and im pretty young, but ive been collecting fish for as long as i can remember, and i love it.. just always been a hobby of mine.

If you got to pets at home, they will do you a water test, take some of your water and ask a salesperson. Seeing you have no treatment in your tank its going to be bad. But they will then show you what to buy to make your water better!
 
I Have this:
1239316410.jpg
And i have these
1239316468.jpg


For a 25ltr tank you have to put 1 1/2 sections (youll see when you buy it) of aquasafe in your tank .. the stress coat removes chlorine, chloramines and ammonia and the zyme maintains good water quality. You wont need both.. i have both because i got the aquasafe in my new tank.

Get any plants you like the look of (Big ones at the back, smaller ones at the front) and bury them in the gravel or sand. If you dont have ornaments then get some hiding places for your fish. Its been proved not having nowhere to hide causes stress for fish.

Also ask someone in your LFS. Im not an expert and im pretty young, but ive been collecting fish for as long as i can remember, and i love it.. just always been a hobby of mine.

If you got to pets at home, they will do you a water test, take some of your water and ask a salesperson. Seeing you have no treatment in your tank its going to be bad. But they will then show you what to buy to make your water better!

ok thanks for your help mate i really appreciate it...so do you think i could pick those products up on ebay or something? Also how many fish do you think will be healthy to have in my 25 litre tank? 2 looks plain! was thinking of getting some more but ill sort out the plants and tap conditioner out first, thanks
 
Right, you really need to get some kind of water conditioners. Putting fish in water from the tap can be harmful. Tap water has ammonia in it, that turns into nitrite. These 2 chemicals are extremely dangerous to fish and could kill them. The nitrite then turns into nitrate (notice the spelling) and this is less dangerous. Live plants can absorb nitrate.

When you first got your tank you should have idealy left it without no fish for about 3-4 weeks with the filter on.. with the tap conditioner in it. This sets up bacteria in your filter. When doing your water change you should only do 25-30% so the water still has alot of the bacteria in it. If i was you id go out tomorrow and buy a testing kit, some aqua safe. This is needed ASAP for the wellbeing of your fish!
Hi there CeeJayy, You've got a good deal of the nitrogen cycle story right there, just a few details we could work on some... Its actually the chlorine/chloramines we'd be first worried about in simon's case, because they are potentially harmful to the fish as well as the bacteria and its just a very sensible safety factor to remove them from any fresh tap water. Any given water authority will use one or the other but nearly all modern conditioners now handle chloramines as well as chlorine.

While its true that tap water can have ammonia in it, its fairly rare for it to be very much, still you are correct there can be some. That ammonia, plus ammonia from the fish respiration (yes, they give off ammonia when they breathe!), from fish waste and from plant debris and excess fish food, will be present in the aquarium. In simon's case, after 2 to 3 months, the filter will probably have been populated by the two species of bacteria that will process the ammonia (assuming they weren't killed off by the chlorinated water!) As you've indicated, the first bacterial species will convert ammonia(NH3/NH4+) to nitrite(NO2) and the second species will convert nitrite(NO2) to nitrate(NO3) and then nitrate(NO3) is removed via the weekly water change. That's a short version of the nitrogen cycle story (how the N atoms move into and out of the tank!) Live plants can indeed absorb nitrate(NO3), but prefer to absorb ammonia in most cases and in either case its not a significant amount relative to tank maintenance, so water changes are still needed.

Setting up a tank and running the filter will not prepare the filter with bacteria (called "cycling" the tank) unless there is a significant ammonia source. Common sources are household ammonia (used in a process called "fishless cycling"), fish themselves (in a process that can be dangerous to the fish themselves, called a "fish-in cyclng situation", via decomposing fish food or shrimp/prawns, or via "cloning," where mature filter media from another tank is transferred. The vast majority of the beneficial bacteria live inside the filter within "biofilms" they form on the filter media like sponges and ceramics, they are basically not found in the water and so are not harmed by water changes. The correct percentage of water to change should be determined by other factors like the hardness, pH and temperature match of the incoming water. If the tap water matches well, often 70% or larger water changes (with conditioning and rough temperature matching via your hand) can help save goldfish in small tanks where the filter is not cycled (not the case here hopefully.)

These goldfish should be re-homed as soon as possible (a goldfish grows to more than a foot in size) but if simon plans to then change over to small tropical fish or plans to buy a huge expensive setup for the goldfish, then investing in a good liquid-based test kit would be appropriate and would be the only way to measure the immediate danger to the fish. Until that kit is bought, the only guarantee of not exposing them to permanent gill and nerve damage would be to probably change at least 50% of the water per day.

~~waterdrop~~
oh, and almost forgot! Welcome to TFF guys!
 
Right, you really need to get some kind of water conditioners. Putting fish in water from the tap can be harmful. Tap water has ammonia in it, that turns into nitrite. These 2 chemicals are extremely dangerous to fish and could kill them. The nitrite then turns into nitrate (notice the spelling) and this is less dangerous. Live plants can absorb nitrate.

When you first got your tank you should have idealy left it without no fish for about 3-4 weeks with the filter on.. with the tap conditioner in it. This sets up bacteria in your filter. When doing your water change you should only do 25-30% so the water still has alot of the bacteria in it. If i was you id go out tomorrow and buy a testing kit, some aqua safe. This is needed ASAP for the wellbeing of your fish!
Hi there CeeJayy, You've got a good deal of the nitrogen cycle story right there, just a few details we could work on some... Its actually the chlorine/chloramines we'd be first worried about in simon's case, because they are potentially harmful to the fish as well as the bacteria and its just a very sensible safety factor to remove them from any fresh tap water. Any given water authority will use one or the other but nearly all modern conditioners now handle chloramines as well as chlorine.

While its true that tap water can have ammonia in it, its fairly rare for it to be very much, still you are correct there can be some. That ammonia, plus ammonia from the fish respiration (yes, they give off ammonia when they breathe!), from fish waste and from plant debris and excess fish food, will be present in the aquarium. In simon's case, after 2 to 3 months, the filter will probably have been populated by the two species of bacteria that will process the ammonia (assuming they weren't killed off by the chlorinated water!) As you've indicated, the first bacterial species will convert ammonia(NH3/NH4+) to nitrite(NO2) and the second species will convert nitrite(NO2) to nitrate(NO3) and then nitrate(NO3) is removed via the weekly water change. That's a short version of the nitrogen cycle story (how the N atoms move into and out of the tank!) Live plants can indeed absorb nitrate(NO3), but prefer to absorb ammonia in most cases and in either case its not a significant amount relative to tank maintenance, so water changes are still needed.

Setting up a tank and running the filter will not prepare the filter with bacteria (called "cycling" the tank) unless there is a significant ammonia source. Common sources are household ammonia (used in a process called "fishless cycling"), fish themselves (in a process that can be dangerous to the fish themselves, called a "fish-in cyclng situation", via decomposing fish food or shrimp/prawns, or via "cloning," where mature filter media from another tank is transferred. The vast majority of the beneficial bacteria live inside the filter within "biofilms" they form on the filter media like sponges and ceramics, they are basically not found in the water and so are not harmed by water changes. The correct percentage of water to change should be determined by other factors like the hardness, pH and temperature match of the incoming water. If the tap water matches well, often 70% or larger water changes (with conditioning and rough temperature matching via your hand) can help save goldfish in small tanks where the filter is not cycled (not the case here hopefully.)

These goldfish should be re-homed as soon as possible (a goldfish grows to more than a foot in size) but if simon plans to then change over to small tropical fish or plans to buy a huge expensive setup for the goldfish, then investing in a good liquid-based test kit would be appropriate and would be the only way to measure the immediate danger to the fish. Until that kit is bought, the only guarantee of not exposing them to permanent gill and nerve damage would be to probably change at least 50% of the water per day.

~~waterdrop~~
oh, and almost forgot! Welcome to TFF guys!

hi so basically in bullet points what do i need to do!? buy a testing kit, tap conditioner, plants etc. i have had the fish in there for a few months now and they both seem fine, swimming around like normal
 
I Have this:
1239316410.jpg
And i have these
1239316468.jpg


For a 25ltr tank you have to put 1 1/2 sections (youll see when you buy it) of aquasafe in your tank .. the stress coat removes chlorine, chloramines and ammonia and the zyme maintains good water quality. You wont need both.. i have both because i got the aquasafe in my new tank.

Get any plants you like the look of (Big ones at the back, smaller ones at the front) and bury them in the gravel or sand. If you dont have ornaments then get some hiding places for your fish. Its been proved not having nowhere to hide causes stress for fish.

Also ask someone in your LFS. Im not an expert and im pretty young, but ive been collecting fish for as long as i can remember, and i love it.. just always been a hobby of mine.

If you got to pets at home, they will do you a water test, take some of your water and ask a salesperson. Seeing you have no treatment in your tank its going to be bad. But they will then show you what to buy to make your water better!

ok thanks for your help mate i really appreciate it...so do you think i could pick those products up on ebay or something? Also how many fish do you think will be healthy to have in my 25 litre tank? 2 looks plain! was thinking of getting some more but ill sort out the plants and tap conditioner out first, thanks

2 Is overstocked already, goldfish grow to big sizes and your fish should idealy be rehomed. Id then get a heater and read up about fish and such and start over, with a betta fish.. If not try getting a couple of shrimp, or some snails!

Hi there CeeJayy, You've got a good deal of the nitrogen cycle story right there, just a few details we could work on some... Its actually the chlorine/chloramines we'd be first worried about in simon's case, because they are potentially harmful to the fish as well as the bacteria and its just a very sensible safety factor to remove them from any fresh tap water. Any given water authority will use one or the other but nearly all modern conditioners now handle chloramines as well as chlorine.

While its true that tap water can have ammonia in it, its fairly rare for it to be very much, still you are correct there can be some. That ammonia, plus ammonia from the fish respiration (yes, they give off ammonia when they breathe!), from fish waste and from plant debris and excess fish food, will be present in the aquarium. In simon's case, after 2 to 3 months, the filter will probably have been populated by the two species of bacteria that will process the ammonia (assuming they weren't killed off by the chlorinated water!) As you've indicated, the first bacterial species will convert ammonia(NH3/NH4+) to nitrite(NO2) and the second species will convert nitrite(NO2) to nitrate(NO3) and then nitrate(NO3) is removed via the weekly water change. That's a short version of the nitrogen cycle story (how the N atoms move into and out of the tank!) Live plants can indeed absorb nitrate(NO3), but prefer to absorb ammonia in most cases and in either case its not a significant amount relative to tank maintenance, so water changes are still needed.

Setting up a tank and running the filter will not prepare the filter with bacteria (called "cycling" the tank) unless there is a significant ammonia source. Common sources are household ammonia (used in a process called "fishless cycling"), fish themselves (in a process that can be dangerous to the fish themselves, called a "fish-in cyclng situation", via decomposing fish food or shrimp/prawns, or via "cloning," where mature filter media from another tank is transferred. The vast majority of the beneficial bacteria live inside the filter within "biofilms" they form on the filter media like sponges and ceramics, they are basically not found in the water and so are not harmed by water changes. The correct percentage of water to change should be determined by other factors like the hardness, pH and temperature match of the incoming water. If the tap water matches well, often 70% or larger water changes (with conditioning and rough temperature matching via your hand) can help save goldfish in small tanks where the filter is not cycled (not the case here hopefully.)

These goldfish should be re-homed as soon as possible (a goldfish grows to more than a foot in size) but if simon plans to then change over to small tropical fish or plans to buy a huge expensive setup for the goldfish, then investing in a good liquid-based test kit would be appropriate and would be the only way to measure the immediate danger to the fish. Until that kit is bought, the only guarantee of not exposing them to permanent gill and nerve damage would be to probably change at least 50% of the water per day.

~~waterdrop~~
oh, and almost forgot! Welcome to TFF guys!

Ahh, i see.. Like i say im no expert, im just trying to help.. Im not very good with chemistry and that but i try to learn. I was like simon once, knew nothing about the cycling and such, so ive learnt from buying my own tanks and reading up (Im only 15 :( - I only ever get taken seriously in LFS's if i can speak to someone who isnt up their bum, so to speak.. I was speaking to a pets at home manager today, and he was telling me quite alot.) Thanks again.
 
also I'm not doing a tropical set up I'm doing a Coldwater set up
 
so basically I would be better of doing a tropical set up and have tropical fish? What would I need for that accesory wise, a filter, a heater and what else. How many tropical fish would I be able to keep in the same size tank...thanks
 

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