New Tank - I Got My Fish!

[GrecoTank]

Hello FishForums,

I am a newb, I realize this. I went into this way too quickly, and I wound up getting and setting up my tank with fish within a few days. Had I done the research I am currently doing prior to my purchase, I would have opted for a fishless cycling. Alas, I am now in the situation I am in.

I have 3 orange/red Serpae Tetras. They are aggressive little buggers. One dominates the tank while the other two hide amongst the scenery. The smallest of the three is now missing a large portion of his dorsal fin, no doubt at fault of the bully. I got these because they looked nice and the LFS said they were hardy (good for cycling) and friendly community fish (I wanted a community tank). Well they are certainly hardy; they've acted relatively normal so far despite less than ideal water.

I have two testing kits. One for ammonia and another for everything else (ph, buffering, nitrate, nitrite, etc). They are test strips which according to the general consensus are not as good as liquid testing kits, but I believe it will suffice for now. I have done testing with these kits and found that I have ideal water as far as hardness, ph, etc. However, my ammonia levels have risen to borderline unsafe levels (1.5 ppm). According to the kits guide, the water will not cause the fish stress at this level of ammonia with the corresponding pH (7.2). I am not sure about the accuracy of this chart though. I've done the best I can to make the tank cycle as quickly and harmlessly as possible form what I have researched.

With the 3 Tetras in the tank I have an assortment of plants. I am not entirely sure of their names, but two look bushy (i'm pretty sure one is a fern) and the other 3 are the same plant (it has very large blade like leaves. Atop their new substrate, I bummed about 2 cups of old substrate from the LFS to help introduce necessary bacteria. There is also an airstone to assure good oxygenation. Finally I have a filter with a bio-wheel for more bacteria to grow on. The temperature stays a balmy 80* F with the help of the 50W heater as well as the lights. The lights are on a timer so the fish get light from about 8am until 11pm. I do a 20% water change about every week. I have had the tank for 13 days (wow, didn't seem that short).

Once again, the fish don't seem to be under too much stress, but I just want to be sure. My goals are to complete the nitrogen cycle and introduce healthy bacterial growth and keep Julius, Brutus, and Dexter alive. Yes, they have names.

RECAP: as of 10/18/10

Ammonia: 1.6ppm
Nitrite: 0 ppm
Nitrate: 0 ppm
pH: 7.2

Tank has:
50W heater
Old Substrate
Airstone
Good Filter
Assorted Plant Life

 

[KittyKat]

I have 3 orange/red Serpae Tetras. They are aggressive little buggers. One dominates the tank while the other two hide amongst the scenery. The smallest of the three is now missing a large portion of his dorsal fin, no doubt at fault of the bully.

They're not anywhere near as bad if kept in schools of 6+, most schooling fish are better in schools.

my ammonia levels have risen to borderline unsafe levels (1.5 ppm). According to the kits guide, the water will not cause the fish stress at this level of ammonia with the corresponding pH (7.2).

Hehehe, yeah.. whatever, listen to us, not the manufacturers!

With the 3 Tetras in the tank I have an assortment of plants. I am not entirely sure of their names, but two look bushy (i'm pretty sure one is a fern) and the other 3 are the same plant (it has very large blade like leaves. Atop their new substrate, I bummed about 2 cups of old substrate from the LFS to help introduce necessary bacteria. There is also an airstone to assure good oxygenation. Finally I have a filter with a bio-wheel for more bacteria to grow on. The temperature stays a balmy 80* F with the help of the 50W heater as well as the lights. The lights are on a timer so the fish get light from about 8am until 11pm. I do a 20% water change about every week. I have had the tank for 13 days (wow, didn't seem that short).

All good, maybe turn the lights down to do only 10 hours.. only a suggestion.

Once again, the fish don't seem to be under too much stress, but I just want to be sure. My goals are to complete the nitrogen cycle and introduce healthy bacterial growth and keep Julius, Brutus, and Dexter alive. Yes, they have names.

Good luck, you seem to be doing everything you can. The only thing I can suggest is increase water change frequency to keep ammonia under 0.25, but your tank will take considerably longer to cycle if you do that.

 

[Shaman]

I was advised on here to keep the ammonia under 0.25ppm when doing a fish-in cycle. I managed this by doing 40-80l water changes every day (180l tank) for about 6 weeks.

This is a good article on the fish-in cycle

http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=224306

and this is my topic (may help you, may not!)

http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/338585-hi/

Shaman Dan

 

[N0body Of The Goat]

1.5 mg/l ammonia levels are way beyond the border, they are life threatening, 0.25mg/l is borderline

You need to empty all of that tank water ASAP with the exception of just enough to cover your fish, then refill with similar temp, dechlorinated water. About an hour later, re-test ammonia and nitrite levels, do another massive water change if either are above 0.25mg/l.

Check you are not overfeeding the fish, about the size of one eye per fish is ample per day.

Be wary of food rotting on the tank floor or within the sponge filters themselves. Use a gravel vacuum tube to remove rotting food, VERY gently rinse filter sponges in REMOVED TANK WATER.

Serpaes have a nippy reputation, they continually fight with their own or other tankmates (if not enough of their own kind) to become "top dog." Ideally you could do with a group of 8+, but I fear that is going to way overstock a 10 gallon tank, I suspect you really need somthing in the 2.5-3 foot long ballpark (not necessary a tall tank, just something with a decent sized footprint).

 

[GrecoTank]

I have thought about it. I really have two options: do water changes quite frequently or return them to the pet store until the tank has finished cycling on its own.

Thoughts?

 

[SlyPolak]

the 3 green/yellow plants bunched together are non aquatic (looks to me like Dracena Sanderiana, a kind of bamboo plant).. if you leave them in there they will eventually rot and produce more ammonia.... you are getting real good advice, if I were you I would return the fish (and the 3 plants) and go for a fishless cycle....


good luck

EDIT:: if you are going to go the live plant route I would also turn off (and return if you can) the bubbler.. all they do is displace the C02 and slow your plants growth, may also cause C02 deficincies in the long run. The water coming out and through your filter causes more than enough surface agitation to oxygenate the water..

 

[GrecoTank]

I just did some research.

The plant is a Dracaena Veriagatus.

You are correct it is a terrestrial plant, and I have removed them from my tank. That petco would sell me these as real aquatic plants really pisses me off.

As for the bubbler, I think I will rig it to run at night only to offset the carbon dioxide released by the plants during the dark cycle, but i'll let them do the oxygenating in the day time. Even if it's wasted at night due to the efficiency of the surface exchange, I figure extra O2 isn't going to hurt the fish (i'm almost positive returning it would be a non-option).

Thank you all again for the advice you've been so kind to share. Any more tips are greatly appreciated.

 

[KittyKat]

Petco isn't renowned for good advice, research on the internet first, then buy. My two favourite first ports of call are Fishbase and Tropica, and of course a number of forums.

Also I would say that an airpump (bubbler) is not necessary from that point of view. If you think about it, the same would happen in many wild ponds or puddles overnight. The main reason for using an airpump is if there isn't enough surface movement created by the filter (so there is not enough air in the water for the fish to breath), or you are using an airpump powered filter (which you are not).

 

[Shaman]

When it comes to fish shops, research online and then go & buy. Don't try and let the lfs sell you something you don't want/need! I've found that the local style independents are good. Mines given me some good advice but I wouldn't buy from a chain store (except for tank supplies!)

 

[SlyPolak]

Almost ever single plant at Petco is non aquatic.. they sure as hell label it aquatic but arent. They got me once a few years back with the "rubber plant" of theirs...

If I were you I would try to return everything you dont need... the plants they mislabel on purpose and as long as you have a box/receipt for the bubbler they should atleast give you store credit, its not lke its livestock and even if it would be the Petco's around here have a 15 day warranty on fish, etc...

EDIT: SP SP SP spppppelling

 

[N0body Of The Goat]

What is the ammonia and nitrite readings today, having hopefully done a massive water change last night?

As I said in my previous post, any readings of 0.25mg/l or more need immediate attention, with ~80% water changes.

 

[GrecoTank]

The fish are going back today.

I'll be back soon with updates.

 

[GrecoTank]

The fish are now back at PetCo. I did not get any money back, but the fish will live to see another day. I'm sure they are happier with more of their kind anyway.


The tank is now devoid of fish. Ammonia levels are at about 1.5ppm. I am now prepared to do a fishless cycle.

Based upon my current standings, what would be the next best step?

10/19/10
UPDATED STATS:
Ammonia- (0.75-1.00ppm)
Nitrite- (0.00ppm)
Nitrate- (0.00ppm)
Hardness- (75ppm)
pH- (7.5)
Alkalinity/Buffering Cap.- (80ppm)

Thanks again.

 

[GrecoTank]

Ok, so after much searching I finally found some pure ammonia. The ammonia I had in my bathroom had some sort of surfactant in it that would cause it to foam. I searched far and wide and finally found ammonia+water at schnucks.

I added 55 drops, and now the Ammonia levels are at about 4.5ppm. Still no Nitrites or Nitrates though.

How long until I should normally see some effect of the bacterial growth?

Once again, thank you so much.

 

[N0body Of The Goat]

You would normally expect to see some processing of the ammonia within two weeks, but the timescale varies somewhat from tank to tank.

You can help speed up the colonisation by setting the heater thermostat to ~28C, as this will speed up the metabolic rate of the bacteria. As long as they have food, the higher rate will rsult in them multiplying quicker.

The processing of the nitrite is likely to take something close to four weeks to start in earnest, but again this varies. It is quite common to find that the colonisation of nitrite processing bacteria to stall if the pH of the tank water drops to something less than the 7.2 ballpark. In addition, high concentrations of the nitrate that they produce as a waste product will be toxic to them, but situations where this becomes a factor are rare if you stick to keeping an ammonia concentration of ~4ppm every 24 hours.