New Juwel Vision 180

[jameshunter63]

ok so i bought a new juwel vision 180l today. I have set up filled up, planting and aquascapping this week whilst running a cycle. I was thinking though if i boosted the bacteria count with some media from my two other tanks could i move a couple of cherry barbs from an established tank to here to get the bacteria count up? Got 2 angles and an ancistrus to move from an existing tank, so i was going to take out the barbs and add the angles and plec after a couple of weeks. obviously with water changes and if testing comes out fine. Can you see any problems with this??#
thanks

 

[waterdrop]

Why risk the fish in the experimental situation? Having mature media to seed a new filter with is wonderful! But any time you transfer bacteria there is always a chance that a small amount will shut down or not make it and a small chance that none of it will make it, leaving you in an uncycled situation. Its so easy to simply perform a standard fishless cycle just like hundreds of others have done in this forum. If the bateria "takes" properly, then the filter should "qualify" within a few weeks or a month.

The test for a biofilter to qualify for fish use is to simply load it up with 5ppm of household ammonia in the tank and then verify that it can reduce that to zero ppm ammonia and zero ppm nitrite(NO2) within 12 hours of when you first dosed the household ammonia. Lots of members can help if you've not previously found a local source for the right household ammonia or the right type of test kit.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[jameshunter63]

iv done a fishless cycle on 2 of my previous tanks and was just wondering if there was a quicker way to do this seeing as i have alot of mature media. So if i stay with doing a fishless cycle this should be done quicker if i use mature filter media yes? can restock about 3 quaters of the new filter with old media as i can easily change through the tanks i have. I have ammonia and have already added, as i said im starting a fishless cycle for the first week, adding mature media tomorrow and was wondering if it may be by the weekend that i could start stocking. The wait cannot be too long as i need to get rid of my old tank and place the fish in the new one, and space is a massive issue at present with both running next to each other in our kitchen space.

Iv also read that a planted aquarium doesnt require the cycle, and seeing as im moderatly planting im hoping that this will give me some le way to add a couple of fish to get it going. Not sure though as there are quite a few contradicting ideas in the planted section and the rest of the forum
cheers

 

[kelvinrankin767]

iv done a fishless cycle on 2 of my previous tanks and was just wondering if there was a quicker way to do this seeing as i have alot of mature media. So if i stay with doing a fishless cycle this should be done quicker if i use mature filter media yes? can restock about 3 quaters of the new filter with old media as i can easily change through the tanks i have. I have ammonia and have already added, as i said im starting a fishless cycle for the first week, adding mature media tomorrow and was wondering if it may be by the weekend that i could start stocking. The wait cannot be too long as i need to get rid of my old tank and place the fish in the new one, and space is a massive issue at present with both running next to each other in our kitchen space.

Iv also read that a planted aquarium doesnt require the cycle, and seeing as im moderatly planting im hoping that this will give me some le way to add a couple of fish to get it going. Not sure though as there are quite a few contradicting ideas in the planted section and the rest of the forum
cheers

i was in the exact same situation i ran my tank fishless for a week using a mature filter i used in my other tank and after a week i added a few fish and weeks in they are doin fine no deaths, and tank is running great i also have some plants in as well, You would be fine to add fish now i dont see why not.

 

[waterdrop]

Death or lack of death is not usually the knowledgeable feedback that experienced aquarists seek. Although the bulk of the hobby has exposed fish to excess ammonia and nitrite for decades, one of the core features of our freshwater beginners section has been to familiarize new hobbyists with the tools and know-how to avoid these practices.

It is great that you have plenty of mature media as this should make for the immediate clone that you are hoping for. But you shouldn't be afraid to test the clone and ensure that your fish are not going to experience permanent gill or nerve damage. A strong clone transfer should be easily clearing 5ppm ammonia into zero ppm ammonia and zero ppm nitrite(NO2) within 12 hours of dosing.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[BethK]

I've run 1 fishless cycle and 3 fish-in cycles

Apart from my last fish-in cycle, all the other 3 ran well, until I place in mature/cycled media and put my fish in straight away, without leaving it to stand, With in 5 days, it went to pot (my only bad experience). I would personally advise, to let your tank run a week or a couple of weeks, before adding fish. If you're seeding mature media, you won't be waiting long.

 

[waterdrop]

This is good, I believe, that BethK is reminding you that a limitation of a week (even though I fully understand the gravity of trying to go against she-who-must-be-obeyed who has two tanks in her kitchen.. yikes! ) is not really a limitation that honestly allows for the concern that the fish may have their gills permanently damaged if the ammonia is above 0.25ppm or their nerves permanently damaged if the nitrite(NO2) goes above 0.25ppm. Unfortunately, those are the concerns that affect the fish and not time concerns.

Unfortunately, Beth's advice of particular fixed timeframes to use, while good in that it encourages you that you may need to "think longer times" still doesn't help you with the more important beginner goal of learning the core biofilter measurement principles we should all come away from the beginners section with. The filter can either clear the toxins in 12 hours or it can't and we have the tools to check that.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[BethK]

ohh sorry, didn't mean a fixed time, i should have elaborated the fact that stats should be level before adding

WD, was that a dig at me?

 

[jameshunter63]

ok sweet, waterdrop you've been great. Im obviuosly waiting at least a week or two, but as you said with the time frame, im going to add ammonia after the mature media is in and hopefully this should finish the cycle a bit quicker. Im starting the cycle tomorrow with the media going in in the morning before work as well as ammonia. measuring up tonight. I have planted the tank tonight to about 50% substrate coverage of plants, which should help. Iv also taken half the gravel out of the mature tank and put it in a stocking next to the new sand. Hopefully any bacteria in there should leach into the substrate. Hopefully when the ammonia drops in the 12 hour period ill add the fish.
However as im not adding a whole bioload and only 3 fish do i really need to build a massive bacteria count that can handle 10x the amount of fish?? as im currently looking around for all the fish i want and strains/colours so will not properly start stocking for about a month.
thanks for your input, its great to hear different views etc,

james

 

[waterdrop]

Regardless of the number of fish you're going to put in you want to basically follow the fishless cycling procedure so that you are encouraging the correct two species of autotrophic bacteria (Nitrosomonas spp. and Nitrospira spp.) and also so that at the end of the fishless cycle there will be a definite "drop-down" from a higher level of colony size. The drop-down helps ensure that you don't experience a mini-cycle after the fish are introduced. Its the robustness of the colony that you're after, not some sort of match to the bioload size.

Now it will still be quite good of course if your initial set of fish represents an understocking. This helps to take away the hesitation if there is still some trace nitrite showing up at 12 hours (what we call the "sticking problem") that won't seem to go away. So you should be in a good position.

~~waterdrop~~