New here, with an angel dillema!

[azvictoria]

Hi all and thank you for having me! I am having a hard day, an angelfish dilemma. I've had angels for 20+ years, and had to send my 5 year old male Philippine Blue to a wonderful new huge home today over extreme aggression (he went back to his breeder). It's been building over the last couple of months, I have no idea why, I've never had this happen and have always had relatively peaceful pairs - granted I know they're cichlids and argue. The female is the same age/size, and is very beat up. This was a spawning pair - I know for sure that the genders are correct. She's a sweetie, has never been aggressive and has almost had an amputation of one swim fin by the male in addition to multiple other fin and scale injuries. She's doing ok, swimming, eating, upright and finally not hiding - I think she's relieved and all the others are out now, too. My tank is a 60 gallon - it was just the 2 angels, 3 cory cats, 3 neons and 2 ottos. Plenty of elbow room, lots of plants, nothing new added, no new fish for years. This is a very healthy tank, I absolutely understand husbandry and am not a beginner. I know that too many water changes upset angels - that wasn't the issue. I don't know what happened, but the guy went nuts and would not leave her alone. I tried separating them for a bit in different tanks, and he went right after her in minutes. I had to keep the lights off - it got that bad and I don't think she could have taken another day of insult. He also starting charging the cory cats. My question (thank you for tolerating my story!) is can I add more angels? Gender that's best? I'm not adding anything for now other than a few more little neons - I want my girl to heal. Given that she's 5 years old - if I add little quarter-sized angels in the near future, would the timing work for her lifespan vs the youngsters' maturity? Also, I know that her tail and dorsal will heal, but her swim fin is down to a little pink nub - will that come back?

 

[Colin_T]

Also, I know that her tail and dorsal will heal, but her swim fin is down to a little pink nub - will that come back?

What's a swim fin?
Dorsal fin is on top.
Anal fin is on bottom.
Pelvic fins are the pr of long fins on the bottom.
Pectoral fins are on the side behind the gills.
Caudal fin is the tail.

Assuming the fin doesn't get infected, it should grow back over a month or so.

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If the fish went nuts when it was light, but settled down when the lights were off, it might have had a brain tumour or something that caused it to dislike light. A bit like people with bad headaches sitting in a dark room because the light hurts their eyes. Something like that might have developed in the male and made him a little loopy.

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You can try adding some young angels in a few months when she has recovered. She might be fine with them or she could go nuts of them. It's just a matter of add some and watch them. If they get along then all is good. If she gets agro with them, move the little ones out.

 

[itiwhetu]

I have said this before, with cichlids you always need multiple tanks. Aggression can happen anytime and you need to be able to move fish quickly.

 

[P J]

Hi AZ, A wise move to separate the pair, agreed with good water quality damaged fins will regrow but a red stub may not, it’s probably too far gone. I assume you are referring to pectoral fins, I have seen a platy regrow pectoral fins so there may be hope. However, isn’t five years, old age for a tank angel, possibly time to pass onto the great river in the sky. PJ

 

[Electric Warrior]

Hi there! I keep angels as well, and I feel for what you have gone through as I have also gone through it before. Bottom line, if you want to add more angels in the future, it shouldn't be a problem, although your tank is barely large enough to house an adult group, IMHO. I used to have a tank very similar in size to what you mentioned, and I found it a bit cramped when angels get fully grown, and trouble breaks out. I'm not saying that it can't work, but bear in mind cichlids will be cichlids, and you never know what their personalities are going to be like until they are fully mature, and the size/layout of the tank will make a a difference. Good numbers for angels in a community tank are either a pair (mated pair), or six or more. I have tried keeping a group of four or five, and those numbers have never worked for me. I now have seven in a 90g/350l tank, and there is a m/f pair that are definitely a bit aggressive to the others when they are spawning, and the extra bit of room makes such a difference.

BTW, what are the dimensions of your tank? I am assuming it's the basic 'rectangle' shape? As far as adding smaller angels in the future, it's fine.. My largest angel is a 6 year old male, who is about 9 inches top to bottom, and I recently added some younger, silver dollar sized ones, and one of those ended up being one of the more aggressive ones in the tank, even though he's so much smaller. Since they are cichlids though, just always have a back up plan in case you need to move one or rehome it like you just did; that's just one of the eternal worries of keeping cichlids unfortunately. Anyways, welcome to the forum. I lived in Littleton for a few years in the late 90's, right off of Prince St.

 

[azvictoria]

It is her pectoral fin, the other is unharmed and she's very mobile considering. The male remained bonkers with lights out - I could see him stalking her but I think she was harder to find. Since the tank gets some indirect natural light, the hood light wasn't super bright. Interesting point, though. I lost an angel years ago to a mouth tumor, had forgotten about that. Thanks so much!

 

[azvictoria]

BTW, what are the dimensions of your tank? I am assuming it's the basic 'rectangle' shape? As far as adding smaller angels in the future, it's fine.. My largest angel is a 6 year old male, who is about 9 inches top to bottom, and I recently added some younger, silver dollar sized ones, and one of those ended up being one of the more aggressive ones in the tank, even though he's so much smaller. Since they are cichlids though, just always have a back up plan in case you need to move one or rehome it like you just did; that's just one of the eternal worries of keeping cichlids unfortunately. Anyways, welcome to the forum. I lived in Littleton for a few years in the late 90's, right off of Prince St.

Thank you, and I appreciate the reinforcement of a hard rehoming decision. That male is really beautiful and it's hard to not be attached. I'll give this female a couple months of healing time before attempting new angels. I wouldn't add more than two very small ones and hope that it takes them a while to mature into the 'three's a crowd' issue, or that it can be avoided. My tank is the general rectangle of a 55 gallon, but at 60, it's taller. Littleton has changed a lot! Still a great place, though

 

[Guyb93]

Thank you, and I appreciate the reinforcement of a hard rehoming decision. That male is really beautiful and it's hard to not be attached. I'll give this female a couple months of healing time before attempting new angels. I wouldn't add more than two very small ones and hope that it takes them a while to mature into the 'three's a crowd' issue, or that it can be avoided. My tank is the general rectangle of a 55 gallon, but at 60, it's taller. Littleton has changed a lot! Still a great place, though

I’m pretty sure angles like most cichlids pair for life , if she paired she won’t pair with another male , so you may never get the 3s a crowd thing

 

[itiwhetu]

Angels don't pair for life. They will spawn with who ever. Oscars and some of the other large Cichlids tend to only have one mate. I am not sure if that is how they are in the wild tho.

 

[seangee]

A bonded pair is likely to stay together for life (but divorce is not unheard of). A male and female may well spawn successfully but if they are not a bonded pair things could go pear shaped at any time.

 

[azvictoria]

Hard to write this, but I lost my big Philippine Blue girl last week. Her fins healed well after the attack from the male, but started enflaming again at the muscle - I'm not sure she really healed completely. Weekly water changes as always, levels all 0. I put her into a hospital tank with some antibiotics and recommended treatments from her breeder, but she developed dropsy and I knew it was time. I didn't let her suffer. I think some others have mentioned that once dropsy sets in, it's a done deal. I didn't want to believe it, but once I saw it for the first time, I do now. My first experience with it. It's really sepsis and a terrible place for a fish or any living creature.