New Camera

kaivalagi may well be happy with his picture quality at maximum aperture. but his pictures would improve, if he stopped down. this is not my guess, or my thoughts. but a basic established and well known physical effect of maximum aperture photography. and has been common knowledge for over 100 years.

can i suggest you either, buy or lend a book on the photographic basics! having read that, you can sort the wheat from the chaff, in the webs site department. unlike fishkeeping, the rules of photography are FIXED. any real photography student will confirm my comments.


lol, lol, lol, lol, I've just read the photoxles comments on aperture. honest guys get your information from those who know. or buy a good book. whilst the place covers, very loosely, the basics. there is so much rubbish information there. you will only learn by using the advice, and finding is duff.

I take your point and will have a play, it's just sometimes I feel it is a trade off and the best possible shot for the situation is still from using the widest aperture...although I then suffer from a shallow depth of field

If there was enough light then great but when I can't do anything about light levels I need to compromise on either ISO, aperture or shutter speeds. Now lower shutter speeds are an issue for faster moving fish so normally determine what aperture I have to use if I want a better ISO level but maybe I can try setting up the camera on a tripod with a remote release to let them settle down a little...or maybe I just need a f1.8 lens that I use in f2.8 or alike :)

I'll play more with light, and dare to use the flash a little more (I have a nice canon 430 so have quite a few options in the way I use it) and see what that gives me

 
not to sound thick lol but what is asa?

kavalagi i am already on the case cataloging the fish , ive updated the journal with the 2 pics in this thread , and will continue to do so right up to adulthood.

im looking at getting a canon 55mm f1.8 prime lens next

Lots of good advice there.

As I said to you in the other thread, the Canon 50mm f1.8 is the cheapest way to a decent quality prime lens. Yes, there is no zoom, but the quality from that would be better than your kit zoom lens. Also a very good way to learn photography. Nikon version is around £80 I think, so I guess Canon wouldn't cost any more than that. Don't bother with Sigma or Tamron for the 50mm f1.8 as their entry-level lens is no where near as good as the Nikon/Canon ones.

When you get as crazy as me with photography you'll be getting studio flashes!

Happy shooting.

Adrian
 
funny you should say that adrian. i remember you saying about the cannon 50 mm f?1.8 prime lens in my other thread. i just bought 1 today . got it for £69. and i see what you were on about regarding it being a good lens to learn photograpghy with. i found that with the kit lens it is very easy to get good results once you have a basic understanding of shutter speed , aperture , iso etc . but after havng a brief play with this lens i can see it will produce very good results BUT it requires a lot more input from the user and given that i hope to become a good photographer that can only be a good thing .

raptorex . its clearly obvious you know your subject in great detail , but for me im just feeling my way in slowly at the moment . once i have a good grasp of the basics i will delve into the slightly more complex side of things , but for now im happy just experementing with shutter speeds , exposures etc.
 
funny you should say that adrian. i remember you saying about the cannon 50 mm f?1.8 prime lens in my other thread. i just bought 1 today . got it for £69. and i see what you were on about regarding it being a good lens to learn photograpghy with. i found that with the kit lens it is very easy to get good results once you have a basic understanding of shutter speed , aperture , iso etc . but after havng a brief play with this lens i can see it will produce very good results BUT it requires a lot more input from the user and given that i hope to become a good photographer that can only be a good thing .

raptorex . its clearly obvious you know your subject in great detail , but for me im just feeling my way in slowly at the moment . once i have a good grasp of the basics i will delve into the slightly more complex side of things , but for now im happy just experementing with shutter speeds , exposures etc.

I sorry if i come across "stuffy" on this. its just so many people now thing the DIGITAL has changed the basics of photography, some how. and the truth is, its the same today as it was 100 years ago. people get lost in the Tech, when the principals are quite simple.

I will always help, if i can, this is a fantastic hobby. unfortunately the Electronics seem more important than the fundamentals.

here are some basics. see if you can follow my reasoning.

1, shutter speed. this is the mechanism used to dictate the LENGTH of time, any, light is allowed to reach the sensor. it, like all exposure components, is broken up into STOPS. one STOP is when the amount of light is, either doubled or halved. so 60th of a second is one stop less than 125th of a second. logically, 30th of a second is one stop more than 60th of a second.

2, aperture. this dictates the amount of light that reaches the sensor. again its brocken up into STOPS. so F3.5 will be one stop more (faster) than f8. and one STOP (slower) than 1.8.

the two above have other effects on your pictures too. but one step at a time!

people often miss the fact that there is only one amount of light, at a given ASA/ISO, that will allow a correctly exposed picture. so the above functions have to work together to ensure that enough light gets to the sensor, for the correct amount of time.

therefore if your camera says the picture is correctly exposed at 125th of a second at F5.6. the picture would also be correctly exposed at, 250th of a second at F2.8.

now a bit of, possibly, usless information. we all know what 125th of a second means (its a fraction of a second). but few know what the number used to denote apertures means.

for the system to work, all lenses must, at any given setting, transmit the same amount of light. but as a lens increases in focal length, the opening needed, to do this, gets much bigger. so a wide angle lens of 28mm will have an aperture size of 10mm @ f2.8 and a 500mm would have an aperture size of 178 and a bit mm. this varience in size could cause problems, so as with most things there is a mathematical formula to explain it. and that is what the aperture number is. turns out if you multiply the aperture size by the focal length, on any lens. the resultant number transmits the same amount of light at that setting. so dividing the focal length by the aperture set, gives you the exact size of aperture, on any lens. and the amount of light transited will be identical in every case.
 
yeah im getting my head round how shuuter speed / apperture/iso effect each other . the links kaivalagi posted were really usefull for that. if you compare the pics at the start of this thread , where i had just taken my 1st shots with the ones in this thread http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/349622-been-playing-with-the-new-camera/ i think you can notice the difference
 
yeah im getting my head round how shuuter speed / apperture/iso effect each other . the links kaivalagi posted were really usefull for that. if you compare the pics at the start of this thread , where i had just taken my 1st shots with the ones in this thread http://www.fishforum...the-new-camera/ i think you can notice the difference

not sure what you mean by, shutter/ISO and aperture affecting each other. as nothing the aperture does effects in any way how the shutter works, or indeed its effect, same goes for ISO. though they need to combine to get a picture. but i guess if you move one, the others need moved to to compensate.

as to the effect of the three on how the photo turns out. these tend to be unrelated to any exposure considerations.

ISO/ASA only effect how much light is needed to get a picture. the higher the ISO/ASA, the less light you need. but, the trade off is, you get lower quality pictures as the ISO/ASA rise. though again the extra grain/noise can be used as part of the picture.

the shutter effect, as has been mentioned, is related to how sharp the picture is. higher shutter speeds always improve picture sharpness. even on a tripod. the effect is logical, the higher the shutter speed, the less motion will be recorded.

apertures are a different kettle of fish (no pun intended). its often said that wide angle lenses have more "depth of field" (area that is in, apparent focus) than telephoto lenses. which, surprisingly is not true. in fact all images taken at a specific aperture, telephoto or wide, have the same depth of field. what changes is OUR perspective. you can try this. take a picture of something, remember always use the same aperture, at wide angle. then, without moving the camera at all. take a picture at the tele end of your lens.
bring up the two pictures in a photo editor. its clear that the two, seem to have differing levels of focused area. now crop the wide angle image so it is the same as the tele image. take a look. both the cropped wide angle shot, and the tele image have the same, apparent depth of focus.

even so this is almost, bye the bye. because if you don't crop. the wide pictures will still have, apparently, more focused area.

so, ignoring the "exposure", shutter speeds dictate how sharp an image is, and the aperture dictates how much, seems, to be in focus.
 
I agree, more light would be good, but it would either mean 1) adding more tubes to a tank taking the brightness way beyond normal levels which would be expensive and not a great solution as some places are always in the shade or 2) using a flash which except for the one off pics now and again I would sooner not use...or am I missing a trick?

For the most part at f2.8 I get ISO100/200 shots with a shutter speed of atleast 1/30th as I have 2 x 4' T5 tubes, but if I had a better f-stop rated lens I could get to keep more shots as I could get the shutter speed up and get less blur for fast moving fish...

Maybe pics using zoom lenses would suffer from their widest aperture being used but my prime is just fine, and having a lens with the lowest possible f-stop for what you can afford is not a bad thing...just expensive none the less.

Photography is a great hobby though aye, lots to it and always stuff to learn, I am still very much an amateur....I'm waiting for the spring to get out and about with the motorbike and SLR a lot more

My favourite pic I have taken with the macro with no extra lighting, still haven't beaten it yet, trying though:

Needed more depth of field...another f-stop issue :)

I dont understand a word you are all saying but now I want to cos that photo is amazing. Need to get my manual out and see if my camera can be improved :drool:
 
I agree, more light would be good, but it would either mean 1) adding more tubes to a tank taking the brightness way beyond normal levels which would be expensive and not a great solution as some places are always in the shade or 2) using a flash which except for the one off pics now and again I would sooner not use...or am I missing a trick?

For the most part at f2.8 I get ISO100/200 shots with a shutter speed of atleast 1/30th as I have 2 x 4' T5 tubes, but if I had a better f-stop rated lens I could get to keep more shots as I could get the shutter speed up and get less blur for fast moving fish...

Maybe pics using zoom lenses would suffer from their widest aperture being used but my prime is just fine, and having a lens with the lowest possible f-stop for what you can afford is not a bad thing...just expensive none the less.

Photography is a great hobby though aye, lots to it and always stuff to learn, I am still very much an amateur....I'm waiting for the spring to get out and about with the motorbike and SLR a lot more

My favourite pic I have taken with the macro with no extra lighting, still haven't beaten it yet, trying though:

Needed more depth of field...another f-stop issue :)

I dont understand a word you are all saying but now I want to cos that photo is amazing. Need to get my manual out and see if my camera can be improved :drool:

it looks way more frightening, than it is. you just need to grasp the basics. after that, its all common sense. all the techno babble, that surrounds today's cameras just muddies the water.
the whole concept is simple. just a struggle to get your head round, at first.
 
what i meant by them affecting each other , is that as i was shooting without flash , and i was using a fairly high shutter speed , i had to crank the iso up to 3200 to increase the sensors sensitivity to the light to prevent the picture coming out dark. so yeah i guess i meant that i have learned that if you fiddle with 1 thing then the others have to be "balanced" to get a decent shot
 
what i meant by them affecting each other , is that as i was shooting without flash , and i was using a fairly high shutter speed , i had to crank the iso up to 3200 to increase the sensors sensitivity to the light to prevent the picture coming out dark. so yeah i guess i meant that i have learned that if you fiddle with 1 thing then the others have to be "balanced" to get a decent shot

ahh i see. back to too little light. its a problem. especially if you want to get the best quality you can. upping the ASA/ISO get the shot, its true. just lower quality.

what does confuses me is. if you are using the camera in an Auto setting. the camera should have given you a correctly exposed picture. even if the shutter was so slow, it was no more than a blur. you see, with these total auto cameras, there is usually more than one, thing that can cause a problem.

anyhow, glad you are getting to grips with it.
 
no im not using a full auto camera ( im assuming yuou mean a compact/point and shoot here) im using a dslr . ist few shots i did were on full auto , then i read a bit and graduated onto "tv" mode and now ive read a bit more still and i shoot most shots on full manual. and this is the beauty of didgital photography. if we were still using film cameras , i rekon with the amount of duff images ive deleted id of spent more on films than i did the camera :lol:
 
no im not using a full auto camera ( im assuming yuou mean a compact/point and shoot here) im using a dslr . ist few shots i did were on full auto , then i read a bit and graduated onto "tv" mode and now ive read a bit more still and i shoot most shots on full manual. and this is the beauty of didgital photography. if we were still using film cameras , i rekon with the amount of duff images ive deleted id of spent more on films than i did the camera :lol:

There's no shame in using aperture priority or shutter priority. Afterall you are still using the camera's in-built light meter to judge your exposure when using manual mode. Using Tv or Av does half the job for you.

Understanding aperture and shutter speed is only the basic bit. Composition is they next part, and it's something that is easy to understand but difficult to master. And when you can master both, you'll become a pro!

I'm glad you agree about the wonder of a 50mm f1.8 lens. Using a fixed zoom lens isn't any more complicated than a zoom lens. The advantage is that the quality is better and maximum aperture is higher. As mentioned by others in previous post the optimum quality (resolution) is usually around f4 - f5.6 for this lens.

Welcome to the world of photography! Your next purchase would be a decent flashgun...

Adrian
 

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