New Aquarist Needing Advice!

[JayP]

Hi there!

New user to the forum and very excited to enter into the hobby. After much deliberation and reviewing, I recently bought a 60 litre capacity aquarium with heater, filter, light and hood. I wish to keep tropical fish. I set up the tank on Tuesday, applied the relevant quantity of nutrafin aqua care and aqua plus that I was advised would treat the water and assist the tank get ready for the introduction of fish.

My water has turned cloudy today? Any ideas?

Also, how do I find out

What temperature I need the water to be?
What the levels of ammonia and PH balance should be etc?
When can I introduce fish?
What breed/how many initially? Any recommendations?
How many could I safely keep in a 60l tank?

I understand there are a lot of questions however I've tried to find the answers however the sheer amount of information is overwhelming! I also want to ensure my tank is ready before I introduce fish.

Kind regards and thanks in advance for any assistance

 

[dannyboi91]

Read through the beginners resource center on here 
especially about cycling your tank.
in most cases completely ignore your local fish shop as they are there to sell so are known for giving misleading advice, this of course does not apply to all but the majority.
always research the fish you want to have and ensure your tank is suitable.
 
it is all in the resource center here>>>>>>> http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/277264-beginners-resource-center/
 
and welcome to the hobby

 

[JenJ]

Welcome to the world of fish-keeping
 
Firstly, have a look at the link in my signature - it'll give you all the information you need about fishless cycling, which means that once completed your tank will be perfectly ready for your fish
 
- Temperatures can vary as some fish like cooler water eg danios and some warmer water eg german blue rams. However most tropical fish will be fine at a steady 24-25 C
- The only safe ammonia level is 0 - this will be helped in the first instance by adding ammonia each day to cycle the tank - that way the bacteria that get 'rid' of ammonia will grow before you put any fish in.
- with pH it's best to get fish that suit your tap pH - messing around with raising and lowering pH is a lot of hassle, not worth it and can do more damage than good.
- the fishless cycle with adding ammonia generally takes around 6 weeks. You can add fish when your bacteria can process the ammonia and nitrite in 12 hours, consistently for a week.
- there are lots of options. It's best to go into a fish shop, take note of the fish that catch your eye, then ask on here or do research as to whether they are suitable.
 
Just beware that advice given in a fish shop may be biased - they are after all selling for a living.

 

[JayP]

Thanks for your replies! I'll certainly have a look at this. That's good I know what temperature to go for and that the PH level should be zero.

I was told if I added the two substances mentioned above, I could add several small fish after a few days which would assist the tank set up? True or false?

 

[JenJ]

Thanks for your replies! I'll certainly have a look at this. That's good I know what temperature to go for and that the PH level should be zero.

I was told if I added the two substances mentioned above, I could add several small fish after a few days which would assist the tank set up? True or false?

Ammonia should be zero (as with nitrite), pH will be whatever your tap water is, usually between 7 and 8.
 
Unfortunately that is false - they will help the water when you do weekly changes once your tank is established (although only a dechlorinator is actually needed in most cases) but they will not magically grow all the required bacteria to deal with the ammonia that fish will produce. If you added fish in that way, you would be doing a fish-in cycle (which is also detailed in the link mentioned before) which requires a lot of work - daily or even twice daily water changes of up to 90%. The fishless cycle is the recommended method from most people on this forum

 

[ReddSamurai]

Id add to JenJ that live plants and wood help reduce the pH of your tank without causing harm and personally i think natural things make a tank

pH generally is generally between 7 and 8, high pH such as 8 is good for Cichlids. but best thing to do is some research before you buy

 

Thanks for your replies! I'll certainly have a look at this. That's good I know what temperature to go for and that the PH level should be zero.

I was told if I added the two substances mentioned above, I could add several small fish after a few days which would assist the tank set up? True or false?

and for the second part its hard too say, most people say do a fish-less cycle. but i didnt i had my tank set up for a week and added 2 gouramis and then left it for a couple of weeks and 4 months down the line they are both alive. but one thing you want to be careful of is not to buy to many fish at once and to give it time between each time you buy some.

 

[JayP]

My mistake with the ammonia level, I haven't added anything to the water for ammonia as I was told the two products I'd bought would suffice, obviously wrong advice?

I take it once my water level has settled, the ammonia level has reached 0 and the PH level is 7 that would be a good condition for the fish to be introduced?

I had considered introducing three or four neon tetras in the next few days as I was advised to do by my local aquarium shop. Again is this poor advice?

Thanks for the prompt replies, glad I joined this forum

 

[fluttermoth]

Most of us here have tried those sorts of products at one time or another, and most of us have found that most of them do nothing

 
A fishless cycle is really the way to go. You add ammonia to the tank to simulate the ammonia that will later be produced by the fish. This enables you to grow the good bacteria that eat ammonia, in your filter, before you add the fish. That makes the tank much safer for them!
 
Definitely don't add neons; they're a fish well known for doing very badly in newly set up tanks even if they're properly cycled; I doubt very much any of them would survive a fish-in cycle.
 
Even so-called 'hardy' fish like zebra danios, that are often recommended for fish-in cycles, can get sick, die or have their lifespans permanently shortened by living through the potentially high levels of ammonia and nitrite that can happen in a cycling tank; even with daily or twice daily water changes. 
 
I know it seems like the most tedious thing in the world, when you're all excited about getting fish, to sit around looking at a bare tank and doing tests every day for the next six weeks or so, but it really is worth it.
 
For a start, you'll be a dab hand at water changing and testing before you have fish to look after!

 

[ReddSamurai]

i wouldnt say wrong advice for the first part as one makes the tap water suitable for fish by removing any chlorine and other things the other tends to contain beneficial bacteria which helps break down the ammonia to nitrite and nitrate but this (as silly as it sounds) dies off so its more of an assistance its not something to rely on.
 
i wouldnt see a problem with adding fish if the test is fine but i would only add a couple hardy fish to start with.
 
i wouldnt get neons first personally i find them very hard to keep

 

[JayP]

Again thanks for the comments folks but interesting to see slightly differing views regarding whether or not to introduce fish! You can understand why a newbie to the hobby would struggle to understand what the best course if action would be to take!

 

[JenJ]

Again thanks for the comments folks but interesting to see slightly differing views regarding whether or not to introduce fish! You can understand why a newbie to the hobby would struggle to understand what the best course if action would be to take!

Absoluitely, and that's why the beginner's resource centre exists, to try and promote a responsible way of setting up your tank and caring for your fish.
 
Ultimately it is your choice, but the majority of experienced aquarists on here strongly recommend fishless cycling

 

[fluttermoth]

We (and by 'we', I mean the long standing members of this forum; no offence meant, ReddSam!) never recommend fish-in cycles.
 
Of course, we can't stop you; it's your tank, and we'll still advise you, if you decide to go fish-in (although not everybody might feel as kindly disposed towards you!), but in most people's opinion, the risk of killing or causing suffering that is involved in a fish-in cycle is just not justified; especially nowadays, when information and help doing fishless cycles is so readily available.

 

[JayP]

Completely understand. I'll sleep on it, read the guides etc however I'm swaying towards the fish less cycle if this means it'll be a more suitable way to introduce my fish. Do you have any idea why my water has turned cloudy after three days? Regards

 

[fluttermoth]

Cloudy water is very common in new tank; it's called a 'bacterial bloom' and it's caused by all sorts of bacteria going mad in a new environment. It'll clear up on it's own in a short while.
 
Unfortunately, it's not caused by the same kind of bacteria we want in our filters 

 No, of course not; that would be far too easy!
 
If you do decide to go with a fishless cycle, don't forget that you can get a head start on it by getting some already cycled media to put in your filter; either from anyone you know who has a tank (or even a pond; the bacteria are the same) or some LFS will give/sell you some. It's also possible to send cycled media through the post (I've done it many times myself).
 
That gives you a small colony of bacteria to start you off and your cycle will go much more quickly

 

[ReddSamurai]

We (and by 'we', I mean the long standing members of this forum; no offence meant, ReddSam!) never recommend fish-in cycles.
 
Of course, we can't stop you; it's your tank, and we'll still advise you, if you decide to go fish-in (although not everybody might feel as kindly disposed towards you!), but in most people's opinion, the risk of killing or causing suffering that is involved in a fish-in cycle is just not justified; especially nowadays, when information and help doing fishless cycles is so readily available.

yea i understand that completely my next tank is going to be a fishless cycle... just from experience ive only done a fish in cycle. 
from that experience i never had a single problem and during in that time i was doing very regular water tests.