New 75 Gal - Tank All Was Fine Until I Cleaned It!

[osikorn]

Hello, I am new to aquarium'ing. I have to say that I am hooked. My son got a couple goldfish at his birthday party forcing us to get a 10 gallon aquarium. those fish have now died and I turned my 10 gallon into a 75 gallon (at a steal at a tag sale)

So here is the situation. I transfered my fish from 10 gallon to 75 gallon (most were aquired after the tranfer): two female guppies, one male guppy, two female molly's, one male molly, tons of babies, a shrimp, a loach (black skinny about 2inches), a blue lobster (young and small) two algea eaters (babies), and two other live bearers that I saw in the store but i forget what they are called and a couple snails, moss ball, loose moss, and two basic live plants.

All was going well. its been a month since this tank got started. I have a Marine Land 350 under tank pump filter. I turned everything off, opened the filter, emptied the rocks (amonia filter stuff) put in new ones, put on a new blue filter around it and put it back to gether. as soon as i turn on the filter, the whole tank turned murky white. and my nitrate levels spiked! I test using a dip strip, so I can't tell you exact numbers.

What did I do Wrong? And how do I fix it?

To try to fix it, I took 20% of the water out and refilled it. I plan on doing the same tomorrow until i can figure out what happened and how to fix it.

On the up side, my algea eaters are going to grow very large, very fast in the current algea condition of the tank.

I would love any assistance in this predicament.

Thank you

 

[clay]

you could have disturbed some nasty stuff that had settled down there. i hope it clears up. and welcome

 

[Miles_hot]

I'm no expert and have no experience of under gravel filters / ammonia rocks etc however in throwing away the blue sponge you probably threw away all your beneficial bacteria. Also are you sure that the rocks were not your ceramic media which is home to the majority of the bacteria? The "ammonia filter" which I know of is zooilite (goodness knows if that's the right spelling) however I'd always assumed that it looked like flakes of stuff but I might be getting confused with Perlitte (which gardeners use on their cuttings!) .

Anyway to bring my ramblings to an end I suspect that you've just removed all the bacteria from your filter making it rather less useful and you are now in a fish in cycle until such tine as they grow back - have a read on the beginners section and get into a strong water change routine to save your fish and critters. You'll also need a liquid based test kit so that you can see what is actually happening to your water chemistry.

Good luck

MIiles

 

[CrazyAirborne]

pretty much what Miles said.

do u have an external filter? i assume u do. you called it under tank, so there could be some confusion.
you dont ever want to throw away any sponges or filter pads, as they are where the good bacteria grow, and you will cause ur fish to have to sit in their own waste until the bacteria grow back. we call this a "fish in cycle" hopefully this isnt what u did.

having some ammonia balls in there might not be a bad thing for now, as it looks like they might be reducing ammonia, but those are something u dont need long term, or pretty much ever. the bacteria that grow in your filter will take care of all the ammonia and nitrite once they grow big and strong. in fact, those ammonia balls can starve the bacteria by stealing it from them.

the murky water sounds like a bacterial bloom, which is sometimes a normal new tank thing, or could be excess ammonia in the water.

the best thing u can do is LOTS of water changes, like 50% every day if ur worried about ur fish or u see them acting differently. theres no such thing as too many water changes. get a liquid test kit, post ur results here and people will help. anything over ZERO for ammonia and nitRITE is bad and a water change needs to be carried out asap.

 

[raptorrex]

pretty much what Miles said.

do u have an external filter? i assume u do. you called it under tank, so there could be some confusion.
you dont ever want to throw away any sponges or filter pads, as they are where the good bacteria grow, and you will cause ur fish to have to sit in their own waste until the bacteria grow back. we call this a "fish in cycle" hopefully this isnt what u did.

having some ammonia balls in there might not be a bad thing for now, as it looks like they might be reducing ammonia, but those are something u dont need long term, or pretty much ever. the bacteria that grow in your filter will take care of all the ammonia and nitrite once they grow big and strong. in fact, those ammonia balls can starve the bacteria by stealing it from them.

the murky water sounds like a bacterial bloom, which is sometimes a normal new tank thing, or could be excess ammonia in the water.

the best thing u can do is LOTS of water changes, like 50% every day if ur worried about ur fish or u see them acting differently. theres no such thing as too many water changes. get a liquid test kit, post ur results here and people will help. anything over ZERO for ammonia and nitRITE is bad and a water change needs to be carried out asap.

Top post!

unfortunately the OP threw the baby out with the bathwater.

 

[osikorn]

Thank you for all the replys. Sorry for causing confusion. The tank is a pump that has tubes going into the tank for suction and water is pushed into the tank. Its a canister that sits under the tank in the cabinet.

I went to the local fish store and spoke with the owner who knows has several tanks herself. She tested the sample of water and said that I effectively 'reset' my tank. "new tank syndrome" she called it. She gave me a chemical to use for 7 days. She told me to do nothing else. the chimcal is called "Stability"

If anyone thinks this is crazy let me know. but thats' what i have to go on for now. If i use the chemical and continue to change water it seems to be counter productive as i'm taking the chemical out as i put it in. And if i continue massive waterchanges how am i building a new cycle?

Regardless, I am my fish are acting relatively normal. a little stressed (adults more than babies) but they are swimming at all levels. I haven't seen the lobster in a few days but thats not uncommon. My shrimp is hanging out by the suction filter which he has done before in the 10 gallon tank. My algea eaters are having a feast! its day 3 and no fish have died. fingers crossed. I hope it continues to get better.

Tomorrow I will buy a test kit.

Now more importantly. the filter, I thought, has to be cleaned monthly. Am I totally off base? My 10 gallon had to be cleaned. I thought the blue filter getting dirty was a bad thing over time. And I thought the amonia rocks need to be replaced. Clearly I don't understand something here. I cleaned the filter because the tank was starting to look foggy and filthy. Hence the water change (20%) and new filter blue thing and rocks.

I guess my next question is how to properly maintain a clean tank. Clearly, I am lost! Any advice would be helpful.

One more thing. would adding fresh water salt help get rid of the 'blossom'?

 

[eaglesaquarium]

I believe "Stability" is just another product that uses chemical processes to neutralize ammonia, but starves your bacteria. If it were me, I'd just do the water changes and be patient with the new cycle. The new cycle should be quicker than the first one. Or better yet, instead of buying a product that won't really work, just ask her for some of her media from one of her tanks to seed your cycle. That would be more effective.



The water changes during a fish-in cycle protects the fish from the toxins, but don't fool yourself into thinking that you are actually removing all of the ammonia from your tank when you do a massive water change. You leave quite a bit behind - just not enough to be measured by our crude instruments. It lowers the concentration enough to be relatively safe for the fish, but still has enough available for the bacteria to grow back. Remember that the ammonia has to be present in even a mature tank in some amount at all times, otherwise the bacteria would "starve". The fish are constantly putting out ammonia, and the bacteria will not be starved by the water changes. The water changes just keep the levels low and stop them from building up.

 

[osikorn]

with the fear of sounding even more ignorant, what do you mean by "some of her media"

 

[Stephan]

Media means a part of the filter cartridge or equivalent from her filter. The thing is the bacteria live in that & they eat the ammonia. I suspect the ammonia rocks are calked that BC they house the bacteria that eat the ammonia. If I have more than 1 thing in ur filter ur best bet is to stagger changes. Example mine has a sponge looking thing, carbon filter, and the rocks looking ones. I have to stagger the changes so when I throw one away I still have the bacteria on the other two. Does that make sense?

 

[osikorn]

Yes it does. My filter has blue filter sieve and the rocks. I should have only changed one, but I changed both. I see my mistake. Thank you.

 

[Miles_hot]

oslkom

Can you take a picture of these ammonia rocks? I suspect that these are actually ceramic media for the bacteria but just in case .

You are currently experiencing a classic dilemma - do you trust a woman who you've met and can judge on a personal level or a bunch of people in one part of the internet. I think the only answer (at least it was for me) is to step back, look at the motivations (real and possible), gather all the data (I assume you've read much of the beginners stuff at the top of the forum? - if not you really should do) and make a decision. It sounds like you will be in this conflict for some time with this woman so better to make a choice sooner rather than later; either follow her lead or that of this forum - they appear to be diametrically opposed.

To attempt to answer some of your confusion.
1) the bacteria live in the filter media only - throwing water away does nothing to them (switch off pump and heater when doing water changes though to protect the kit)
2) doing a big water change (or any change) does not stress the fish - so long as they can till swim upright all that has happened in that their world has got a bit shorter!
3) throwing all the water away will indeed chuck some / much of the chemical away. This is one of the reasons why they are not in much favour around here. The other reason is that you're masking the main issue of a lack of bio filtration and stuck with putting the chemicals in for the duration of the tank Some of the "chemicals" you trow away are the toxins we are attempting to protect the fish from - a good thing! Water changes have no effect on the filter and hence have little or no impact on the cycle as the fish are still producing waste which is what the bacteria in the filter need.
4) Cleaning the filter - yes it needs to be cleaned (once a month, maybe a little more frequently - my mate does it on a 3 week cycle) however when we say "cleaned" we basically be to rinse the gunk off by gently washing / rinsing in a bucket of tank water. You are not looking to return the media to factory fresh condition! The bucket of now dirty water goes onto the garden as it's a great fertiliser.
5) To clean the tank you need a vacuum - basically a tube which is used to set up a syphon - once the syphon is established use it to collect the fish mess off the bottom of the tank. If you have a gravel base to the tank plunge the tube into the gravel and waggle it around - some gravel will be sucked up and the fall back. If you have a sand base wave the tube 1" above the surface to get the mess. The sides of the tank can be cleaned with a squeegee or magnetic cleaner (be careful there's no sand / grit caught up for fear of scratching the glass).

If you have any more questions please ask - this place seems to be one of the nicer places on the net; the only thing that seems to get their goat is the Fish Shop advice which sometimes seems to be more motivated towards sales and getting fish into the water as soon as possible so that the customer doesn't get bored (raising bacteria is a seriously poor alternative to fish it seems!).

Regards

Miles

 

[raptorrex]

Yes it does. My filter has blue filter sieve and the rocks. I should have only changed one, but I changed both. I see my mistake. Thank you.

truth is you dont CHANGE any media,( as Miles_hot says) well not till it falls apart, thats just sales talk. as is the "stability".
lol, "new tanks syndrome". newly uncycled, more like.

if you follow the guide, outlined by Miles, you wont go far wrong.

Whilst i agree there is not much bacteria carried in the tank water. you throw away tones of bacteria in the water, in and used to clean, the media. as for removing the "Stability", apart from masking your problem, its doing you no good, anyway. the, general, dislike of "bottled cycle" and the like, here. is based on the fact they don't work!!!!!!!!!!!!! not that they are removed in your water changes.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Whilst i agree there is not much bacteria carried in the tank water. you throw away tones of bacteria in the water, in and used to clean, the media. as for removing the "Stability", apart from masking your problem, its doing you no good, anyway. the, general, dislike of "bottled cycle" and the like, here. is based on the fact they don't work!!!!!!!!!!!!! not that they are removed in your water changes.

Rex is correct. I tried to use a product like that to cycle my filter - It still took a full month on a tiny tank (10 US gallons) and I had it greatly overfiltered and followed all the steps to increase the speed of a cycle - then when I moved my filter to a bigger tank it took even longer.


However, I just added a mature media (floss cartridge and small sponge) to my filter (which was struggling to drop 3ppm ammonia in 24 hours) and added 7 fish that were from the same tank as the filter media came from, and I haven't seen a single spike in either ammonia or nitrite. (Mature media is the only proven way to "instantly" cycle a tank. I have just added 10 more fish to my tank to get the numbers of the shoalers to the proper levels. Testing this morning showed no spike. Continued testing will be on-going and I am ready to do as large a water change as necessary if I see even a slight tinge of green in my ammonia test (should be yellow) or a slight tinge of purple in my nitrite test (should be sky blue). The truth is that the mature filter media from an established tank is the best prescription for any cycling situation. The biofilms and colony size are sufficient to handle just about anything that the tank can throw at it. If the sample is too small, water changes are still potentially necessary, but are beneficial and don't disrupt a mature bacteria colony. Remember, the only way to remove nitrates reliably from your tank is by doing a water change.


BTW, if your "rocks" in the filter are in fact the ceramics that Miles pointed out they may be, these are specially designed to be highly porous providing extra surface area for the bacteria to colonize and that is where a large (shall I say majority of) portion of your bacteria will be. The benefit of them is that a quick little swish in some old tank water should remove any built up debris easily, but not impact the colony a bit.

 

[Miles_hot]

Eagle - I suspect that the normal way to remove the nitrates is a water change however I seem to remember reading that plants will also do it - thus the frequency of water changes can be reduced with a greater degree of planting....

Miles

 

[osikorn]

I think you guys are right. Chemical is never the best way to get things done. And the poor fish need fresh water. I will start 50% water changes as suggested until everything evens out.

I do have 2 plants and moss.

A huge problem right now is the amount of Algae growing on every surface in the tank. I will be taking out all the 'toys' in the tank to gently wash them in the next water change, but is there something I can do to kill off some of the algae. I'm considering buying a few more algae eaters just to be my janitors here. I have two right now, and they are working overtime. Its a real mess. How do I get rid of this algae? The water temp is stable around 75. Other than adding cooler water in the water changes which may shock the fish, is this a good temperature to keep the tank.

Will adding aquarium salt help this mess or make it worse?

So much to consider! For all the relaxation i find in watching the fish, this sure is stressful. I am anxious to get my tranquil ecosystem back.