Never Been So New! At My Age!

andyhardie

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Hi All and what a great site for new boys like me...

well I had fish years and years ago when all you had was a heater, a 60 watt bulb and gravel. Looking on the site now I am amazed ref co2 etc etc. I am a professional gardener by trade and looking forward to growing plants. However... I bought a tank off ebay, 48 x 12 x 15 with hood with one 40 watt tube in, 30 watt heater and a Fluval 4? filter. My question is how do i calculate the no of litres/gallons in my tank and how many watts per gallon do I need, and, if I havent enough how do I get more in a purpose built hood,(marina make)?

I have been looking at planted tanks on the site and they are superb... I am as green as the plants!
 
Welcome to the forum AndyHardie. I also got into the hobby when we used the 60 W tank light as the main source for heating above room temperature.
You have about 40 gallons. It's volume in cubic feet times about 7.5 to get volume in US gallons. You are at about 1 WPG which means only very low light plants unless you change the light fixture. To upgrade the lighting, it is best to get a backfit kit because a real aquarium fixture with good lighting is rare at reasonable prices. Another option with a 4 ft tank is to get a shop light with 2 light tubes in it. The 4 ft is a typical shop light size so you have lots of choices at fairly cheap prices which would get you to 2 WPG.
I'm guessing you dropped a zero in the heater rating because a 300W would be about right or maybe even slightly large for that tank. If the Fluval is a 4+, it is a good size for that tank. You are still missing some things like a good liquid type test kit to test ammonia, nitrites and nitrates and a bottle of dechlorinator for your water. Most of us end up using Prime as the dechlorinator. It is cheap to use because you use so little. One of the favorite test kits is the API master test kit but I know Seachem also makes a similar kit.
Before you start, you need to read up on tank cycling. There are links in my signature area for both fishless and fish-in cycling. The fishless approach is less stressful but takes some patience. The fish-in, which is what we used to all do, takes a lot of work to do without harming the fish and can be very frustrating when done right.
 
Hi All and what a great site for new boys like me...

well I had fish years and years ago when all you had was a heater, a 60 watt bulb and gravel. Looking on the site now I am amazed ref co2 etc etc. I am a professional gardener by trade and looking forward to growing plants. However... I bought a tank off ebay, 48 x 12 x 15 with hood with one 40 watt tube in, 30 watt heater and a Fluval 4? filter. My question is how do i calculate the no of litres/gallons in my tank and how many watts per gallon do I need, and, if I havent enough how do I get more in a purpose built hood,(marina make)?

I have been looking at planted tanks on the site and they are superb... I am as green as the plants!
Great assistance old man 47? Can I ask I am not sure what you mean by back fit kit? and do I have to remove all the old lamp fittings to get a shop fitting with 2 tubes in? Sorry to sound dumb but I dont find this straight forward. I am not used to the gargon yet... Also finally is 2 watts per gallon about the norm?

Thanks for your help so far
Andy

Hi All and what a great site for new boys like me...

well I had fish years and years ago when all you had was a heater, a 60 watt bulb and gravel. Looking on the site now I am amazed ref co2 etc etc. I am a professional gardener by trade and looking forward to growing plants. However... I bought a tank off ebay, 48 x 12 x 15 with hood with one 40 watt tube in, 30 watt heater and a Fluval 4? filter. My question is how do i calculate the no of litres/gallons in my tank and how many watts per gallon do I need, and, if I havent enough how do I get more in a purpose built hood,(marina make)?

I have been looking at planted tanks on the site and they are superb... I am as green as the plants!
Great assistance old man 47? Can I ask I am not sure what you mean by back fit kit? and do I have to remove all the old lamp fittings to get a shop fitting with 2 tubes in? Sorry to sound dumb but I dont find this straight forward. I am not used to the gargon yet... Also finally is 2 watts per gallon about the norm?

Thanks for your help so far
Andy


PS you were right about the heater 300 watts>>>
 
Hi Andie and welcome.

What OM means by a backfit kit is the parts to convert your existing light to a higher efficiency light. At the bottom of this thread http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=96754 is a link to AH Supply. They have multiple kits depending on what you want. I didn't notice if you are in the US. AH Supply is. I'll come back to lighting after talking about nutrients.

You definitely should follow OM's advice about water test kits and cycling.

Since you are a master gardener, forgive me if you know any of the following. I'm trying to do a planted aquarium myself and have been studying as I made a problem because I started before I knew what I was doing. (I'm about to find out how well I have learned as I am ordering bits right now.)

My observation is that the thriving planted aquarium is a combination of lighting, macronutrients and micronutrients. The lighting is important because it limits what types of plants you can have, but it is not the most important thing. There are several examples in the Plants forum of low light aquariums that are absolutely stunning. (Check out the links in SuperColey1's signature. He usually posts in the Plants forum.)

My impression is that the macro and micronutrients are more important. There are four macro nutrients, CO2, nitrate, potassium and phosphate. CO2 typically gets more discussion than the others. I'm guessing this is because it is more difficult to add properly. CO2 is typically injected and held between 20 and 35 ppm. Going over 35 ppm is dangerous to the fish. It seems 30 ppm is a common target. The closer wattage gets to 2 wpg the more crucial CO2 becomes as algae becomes a major problem without it. CO2 is typically injected through either pressurized or DIY (soda bottle construction) methods. At 40 gallons, you probably have to go pressurized as the DIY is labor intensive and will take multiple bottles which need weekly service. It is very important to keep the CO2 level constant as algae takes advantage of the plants adjusting to varying CO2 levels.

To keep the cost of a pressurized system reasonable many seem to gather parts independently and assemble the whole unit. I am taking that approach and expect to spend $70 for the regulator (http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-CO2-Regulator-Solenoid-and-FREE-Bubble-Counter_W0QQitemZ230315642187QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item230315642187), $60 for the CO2 bottle (http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-5-lb-CO2-Aluminum-Cylinder-W-Valve-co-2-tank_W0QQitemZ140290586876QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Fountains_Dispensers?hash=item140290586876), $15 for a homemade reactor (I probably could have built it cheaper but someone else was selling one so I bought it) and up to $120 for a CO2/PH monitor. The last part isn't necessary but I want low maintenance and it will automatically turn the CO2 on and off to keep the level constant. (I hope the links work. Sorry, I'm not very good at links yet.) This may sound expensive but the one complete system I found was $700+.

I'll also get a dropchecker so I can manually check the CO2 levels but I probably won't use it much once I get the monitor.

There are threads in the Plants forum about non-pressurized DIY CO2 (IMO, forget most of the CO2 systems in LFS as they are expensive versions of the DIY system.). As I said, it is a labor intensive approach that I want to avoid.

I found this thread http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=265886 did a good job quick job of explaining the other nutrients and how to add them, so I won't repeat what it says here. This pinned article http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=104737 does a good job of explaining the weekly routine for these other nutrients.

In addition to all of this is a substate, basically a layer of dirt/clay under the gravel or sand. It provides a base for the plants to root into as well as being a source of the nutrients. There is a lot of discussion about which substrate is best. Eco-Complete seems to be a popular choice but other substrates have advantages. In the interest of time and brevity I'll move on.

Okay back to lighting. The 2wpg rule is a rule of thumb which I made a big mistake with. It is based on the wattage of T8 or T12 bulbs and not on how much light gets into the aquarium. Different bulbs and reflectors put more (or less) light into the aquarium. In other words, smaller bulbs (T5, T6 and compact flourescents) put more light in per watt of output than T8 or T12. A better reflector (than no reflector or the cheap reflector in most strip lights) also directs more light into the aquarium. In addition, where the bulb is in relation to the reflector affects how much light is directed into aquarium. Thus the smaller bulbs are more efficient than standard T8 or T12 bulbs.

In my case, I used a 36 watt retrofit kit. Nominally I am under the 2 wpg rule as I have it on a 22 gal tank. But the new bulb and reflector are more efficient/direct more light into the tank than the old T8. For purposes of the rule, I have been told to add 50% to the nominal output before computing wpg. Doing that I am past 2 wpg and the algae problems (BGA, GSA, hair algae and probably a couple of other types) that arose confirm it. (This morning I am completing a three day blackout in an attempt to temporarily beat the BGA (nasty stuff). T5, especially HOT5, is even more efficient than the cfl I am told. Basically double the nominal output, so a 20 watt T5 with a good reflector over your 40 gallon tank and be ready for the algae wars.

This gets us back to the plants and nutrients. As I understand it, the plants can override the algae, if they can grow fast enough. The growth rate is highly dependent upon nutrients and to a lesser extent light. Algae is highly dependent on light. My experience bears this out. My son's 20 gal with a standard 15 watt T8 is now algae free with the addition of low light tolerant plants. I suspect I don't have enough nutrients in that tank as the hornwort is losing some leaves but algae isn't a problem except on the pennywort directly under the light. My 22 gal is a problem. Because I've blown past the 2 wpg rule and don't want to redo the lighting again, I am going to remove everything from the tank, add a substrate, then gravel, add a pressurized CO2 system and dose with the other nutrients.

I'm sorry this has gotten so long. You asked a simple question that doesn't have a simple answer, IMO. Hopefully this helps you. It took me more than a month of reading and re-reading threads and articles to get what I consider a basic understanding of a planted aquarium. I'm no expert in a planted aquarium, just some guy trying to have a nice planted aquarium for my wife (yeah I'll enjoy it also). If I have messed up, hopefully somebody from the plants forum (hey Aaron, Andy, are you out there?) will correct me.
 
Hi Andie and welcome.

What OM means by a backfit kit is the parts to convert your existing light to a higher efficiency light. At the bottom of this thread [URL="http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=96754"]http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=96754[/URL] is a link to AH Supply. They have multiple kits depending on what you want. I didn't notice if you are in the US. AH Supply is. I'll come back to lighting after talking about nutrients.

You definitely should follow OM's advice about water test kits and cycling.

Since you are a master gardener, forgive me if you know any of the following. I'm trying to do a planted aquarium myself and have been studying as I made a problem because I started before I knew what I was doing. (I'm about to find out how well I have learned as I am ordering bits right now.)

My observation is that the thriving planted aquarium is a combination of lighting, macronutrients and micronutrients. The lighting is important because it limits what types of plants you can have, but it is not the most important thing. There are several examples in the Plants forum of low light aquariums that are absolutely stunning. (Check out the links in SuperColey1's signature. He usually posts in the Plants forum.)

My impression is that the macro and micronutrients are more important. There are four macro nutrients, CO2, nitrate, potassium and phosphate. CO2 typically gets more discussion than the others. I'm guessing this is because it is more difficult to add properly. CO2 is typically injected and held between 20 and 35 ppm. Going over 35 ppm is dangerous to the fish. It seems 30 ppm is a common target. The closer wattage gets to 2 wpg the more crucial CO2 becomes as algae becomes a major problem without it. CO2 is typically injected through either pressurized or DIY (soda bottle construction) methods. At 40 gallons, you probably have to go pressurized as the DIY is labor intensive and will take multiple bottles which need weekly service. It is very important to keep the CO2 level constant as algae takes advantage of the plants adjusting to varying CO2 levels.

To keep the cost of a pressurized system reasonable many seem to gather parts independently and assemble the whole unit. I am taking that approach and expect to spend $70 for the regulator (http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-CO2-Regulator-Solenoid-and-FREE-Bubble-Counter_W0QQitemZ230315642187QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item230315642187), $60 for the CO2 bottle (http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-5-lb-CO2-Aluminum-Cylinder-W-Valve-co-2-tank_W0QQitemZ140290586876QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Fountains_Dispensers?hash=item140290586876), $15 for a homemade reactor (I probably could have built it cheaper but someone else was selling one so I bought it) and up to $120 for a CO2/PH monitor. The last part isn't necessary but I want low maintenance and it will automatically turn the CO2 on and off to keep the level constant. (I hope the links work. Sorry, I'm not very good at links yet.) This may sound expensive but the one complete system I found was $700+.

I'll also get a dropchecker so I can manually check the CO2 levels but I probably won't use it much once I get the monitor.

There are threads in the Plants forum about non-pressurized DIY CO2 (IMO, forget most of the CO2 systems in LFS as they are expensive versions of the DIY system.). As I said, it is a labor intensive approach that I want to avoid.

I found this thread [URL="http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=265886"]http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=265886[/URL] did a good job quick job of explaining the other nutrients and how to add them, so I won't repeat what it says here. This pinned article [URL="http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=104737"]http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=104737[/URL] does a good job of explaining the weekly routine for these other nutrients.

In addition to all of this is a substate, basically a layer of dirt/clay under the gravel or sand. It provides a base for the plants to root into as well as being a source of the nutrients. There is a lot of discussion about which substrate is best. Eco-Complete seems to be a popular choice but other substrates have advantages. In the interest of time and brevity I'll move on.

Okay back to lighting. The 2wpg rule is a rule of thumb which I made a big mistake with. It is based on the wattage of T8 or T12 bulbs and not on how much light gets into the aquarium. Different bulbs and reflectors put more (or less) light into the aquarium. In other words, smaller bulbs (T5, T6 and compact flourescents) put more light in per watt of output than T8 or T12. A better reflector (than no reflector or the cheap reflector in most strip lights) also directs more light into the aquarium. In addition, where the bulb is in relation to the reflector affects how much light is directed into aquarium. Thus the smaller bulbs are more efficient than standard T8 or T12 bulbs.

In my case, I used a 36 watt retrofit kit. Nominally I am under the 2 wpg rule as I have it on a 22 gal tank. But the new bulb and reflector are more efficient/direct more light into the tank than the old T8. For purposes of the rule, I have been told to add 50% to the nominal output before computing wpg. Doing that I am past 2 wpg and the algae problems (BGA, GSA, hair algae and probably a couple of other types) that arose confirm it. (This morning I am completing a three day blackout in an attempt to temporarily beat the BGA (nasty stuff). T5, especially HOT5, is even more efficient than the cfl I am told. Basically double the nominal output, so a 20 watt T5 with a good reflector over your 40 gallon tank and be ready for the algae wars.

This gets us back to the plants and nutrients. As I understand it, the plants can override the algae, if they can grow fast enough. The growth rate is highly dependent upon nutrients and to a lesser extent light. Algae is highly dependent on light. My experience bears this out. My son's 20 gal with a standard 15 watt T8 is now algae free with the addition of low light tolerant plants. I suspect I don't have enough nutrients in that tank as the hornwort is losing some leaves but algae isn't a problem except on the pennywort directly under the light. My 22 gal is a problem. Because I've blown past the 2 wpg rule and don't want to redo the lighting again, I am going to remove everything from the tank, add a substrate, then gravel, add a pressurized CO2 system and dose with the other nutrients.

I'm sorry this has gotten so long. You asked a simple question that doesn't have a simple answer, IMO. Hopefully this helps you. It took me more than a month of reading and re-reading threads and articles to get what I consider a basic understanding of a planted aquarium. I'm no expert in a planted aquarium, just some guy trying to have a nice planted aquarium for my wife (yeah I'll enjoy it also). If I have messed up, hopefully somebody from the plants forum (hey Aaron, Andy, are you out there?) will correct me.
 
Hi Andie and welcome.

What OM means by a backfit kit is the parts to convert your existing light to a higher efficiency light. At the bottom of this thread [URL="http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=96754"]http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=96754[/URL] is a link to AH Supply. They have multiple kits depending on what you want. I didn't notice if you are in the US. AH Supply is. I'll come back to lighting after talking about nutrients.

You definitely should follow OM's advice about water test kits and cycling.

Since you are a master gardener, forgive me if you know any of the following. I'm trying to do a planted aquarium myself and have been studying as I made a problem because I started before I knew what I was doing. (I'm about to find out how well I have learned as I am ordering bits right now.)

My observation is that the thriving planted aquarium is a combination of lighting, macronutrients and micronutrients. The lighting is important because it limits what types of plants you can have, but it is not the most important thing. There are several examples in the Plants forum of low light aquariums that are absolutely stunning. (Check out the links in SuperColey1's signature. He usually posts in the Plants forum.)

My impression is that the macro and micronutrients are more important. There are four macro nutrients, CO2, nitrate, potassium and phosphate. CO2 typically gets more discussion than the others. I'm guessing this is because it is more difficult to add properly. CO2 is typically injected and held between 20 and 35 ppm. Going over 35 ppm is dangerous to the fish. It seems 30 ppm is a common target. The closer wattage gets to 2 wpg the more crucial CO2 becomes as algae becomes a major problem without it. CO2 is typically injected through either pressurized or DIY (soda bottle construction) methods. At 40 gallons, you probably have to go pressurized as the DIY is labor intensive and will take multiple bottles which need weekly service. It is very important to keep the CO2 level constant as algae takes advantage of the plants adjusting to varying CO2 levels.

To keep the cost of a pressurized system reasonable many seem to gather parts independently and assemble the whole unit. I am taking that approach and expect to spend $70 for the regulator (http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-CO2-Regulator-Solenoid-and-FREE-Bubble-Counter_W0QQitemZ230315642187QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item230315642187), $60 for the CO2 bottle (http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-5-lb-CO2-Aluminum-Cylinder-W-Valve-co-2-tank_W0QQitemZ140290586876QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Fountains_Dispensers?hash=item140290586876), $15 for a homemade reactor (I probably could have built it cheaper but someone else was selling one so I bought it) and up to $120 for a CO2/PH monitor. The last part isn't necessary but I want low maintenance and it will automatically turn the CO2 on and off to keep the level constant. (I hope the links work. Sorry, I'm not very good at links yet.) This may sound expensive but the one complete system I found was $700+.

I'll also get a dropchecker so I can manually check the CO2 levels but I probably won't use it much once I get the monitor.

There are threads in the Plants forum about non-pressurized DIY CO2 (IMO, forget most of the CO2 systems in LFS as they are expensive versions of the DIY system.). As I said, it is a labor intensive approach that I want to avoid.

I found this thread [URL="http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=265886"]http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=265886[/URL] did a good job quick job of explaining the other nutrients and how to add them, so I won't repeat what it says here. This pinned article [URL="http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=104737"]http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=104737[/URL] does a good job of explaining the weekly routine for these other nutrients.

In addition to all of this is a substate, basically a layer of dirt/clay under the gravel or sand. It provides a base for the plants to root into as well as being a source of the nutrients. There is a lot of discussion about which substrate is best. Eco-Complete seems to be a popular choice but other substrates have advantages. In the interest of time and brevity I'll move on.

Okay back to lighting. The 2wpg rule is a rule of thumb which I made a big mistake with. It is based on the wattage of T8 or T12 bulbs and not on how much light gets into the aquarium. Different bulbs and reflectors put more (or less) light into the aquarium. In other words, smaller bulbs (T5, T6 and compact flourescents) put more light in per watt of output than T8 or T12. A better reflector (than no reflector or the cheap reflector in most strip lights) also directs more light into the aquarium. In addition, where the bulb is in relation to the reflector affects how much light is directed into aquarium. Thus the smaller bulbs are more efficient than standard T8 or T12 bulbs.

In my case, I used a 36 watt retrofit kit. Nominally I am under the 2 wpg rule as I have it on a 22 gal tank. But the new bulb and reflector are more efficient/direct more light into the tank than the old T8. For purposes of the rule, I have been told to add 50% to the nominal output before computing wpg. Doing that I am past 2 wpg and the algae problems (BGA, GSA, hair algae and probably a couple of other types) that arose confirm it. (This morning I am completing a three day blackout in an attempt to temporarily beat the BGA (nasty stuff). T5, especially HOT5, is even more efficient than the cfl I am told. Basically double the nominal output, so a 20 watt T5 with a good reflector over your 40 gallon tank and be ready for the algae wars.

This gets us back to the plants and nutrients. As I understand it, the plants can override the algae, if they can grow fast enough. The growth rate is highly dependent upon nutrients and to a lesser extent light. Algae is highly dependent on light. My experience bears this out. My son's 20 gal with a standard 15 watt T8 is now algae free with the addition of low light tolerant plants. I suspect I don't have enough nutrients in that tank as the hornwort is losing some leaves but algae isn't a problem except on the pennywort directly under the light. My 22 gal is a problem. Because I've blown past the 2 wpg rule and don't want to redo the lighting again, I am going to remove everything from the tank, add a substrate, then gravel, add a pressurized CO2 system and dose with the other nutrients.

I'm sorry this has gotten so long. You asked a simple question that doesn't have a simple answer, IMO. Hopefully this helps you. It took me more than a month of reading and re-reading threads and articles to get what I consider a basic understanding of a planted aquarium. I'm no expert in a planted aquarium, just some guy trying to have a nice planted aquarium for my wife (yeah I'll enjoy it also). If I have messed up, hopefully somebody from the plants forum (hey Aaron, Andy, are you out there?) will correct me.
 
Ever wished you hadn't asked... Life seemed so simple with just a 60 watt bulb!

Thankyou very much for your reply I am now deep in your debt and research but you have saved me months.
 
I'm not sure what is available in the UK for lighting but in the US the most common fluorescent light fixture at a home improvement center would be one that uses a 4 ft tube. In reality, they are not the most efficient fixtures that can be had but they are a great size for someone with a 4 ft tank. They are just the right length and can be obtained dirt cheap compared to a back fit kit. I have used both approaches on my tanks and both work well but only a 4 ft is a good fit for the cheap light fixture. When I say cheap, the backfit kit can easily cost 4 times as much as the pre-made 4 foot fixture. My own experience is with AHSupply kits and they are very nice to work with. The way they work is you gut your existing light strip and replace everything with the parts they give you. The light strip will still look like the one that came with the tank but will be many times brighter.
 
Hi Andy.

I can`t help but think that things are maybe being over complicated for you, with the possibility of frightening and possibly one or two others off from planted tanks.

Stick with your current lighting and try Crypts, Anubias, Mosses and Ferns. There are quite a few stem plants you could try, too. In terms of the lighting required, take a look at the algae issues on this very thread and use this as an indicator that you should be walking before you run. Lighting along with fert regimes can be upgraded later, with more confidence and success.

The money saved on lighting at this early stage can be used to buy a decent pressurised CO2 system off eBay from a company such as Aquarianversand. Even at low lighting CO2 will benefit your plants, and CO2 measured with a drop checker is the most cost effective at the moment. If you don`t have the money for pressurised CO2 at the moment, you could have a go at supplying carbon organically via Fourish Excel or Easycarbo.

Using a pH controller to control CO2 is a pretty lonely furrow to be leading. A pH controller will be affected by other pH influences beside CO2, so it could be an expensive white elephant. How many of the best aquascapers around use them?

In terms of fertilising, you could either use potassium nitrate, potassium phosphate and trace mix from Aquaessentials. A simpler, but more expensive tack could be using TPN+.

Substrate could be inert sand or gravel if you wish, but if you want a quality substrate then try ADA Aqua Soil Amazonia.

Personally, I would also suggest that you forget using test kits. Why test for nitrates if you are going to be adding known amounts via fertilisation? Ammonia shouldn`t be a problem if you follow the planted tank ethos of regular, large water changes early on. This will control any toxins that could build up, and help to get rid of a lot of algae spores.

I generally change 50% water daily for the first two weeks or so, before slowing down to one 50% change weekly during the next month or so. I use Zeolite a lot in my tanks to keep the ammonia down and algae at bay.

Your tank will cycle.

I feel that at this stage, all you currently need to spend on is a source of carbon, NPK and trace. You could make these a cheap, but effective option under your current lighting.

If you want a high light tank, let me know, as these are the type of tanks that I run. Super Andy Cole could probably give you more detailed advice on lower lighting regimes.

Dave.
 
Hi Dave,

Thanks for your input. I wasn't trying to scare him or anyone off planted tanks. One of the points I was trying to make is that a good planted tank appears to me to be a balance of lighting, plants and nutrients. The other point was it is easy to overdue the lighting if one doesn't understand the 2 wpg rule. (At least I certainly did.) Finally, I was trying to put the basic parts in one place to save him and other newbs like myself some time, confusion and aggravation.

Please help me understand your comment regarding the PH controller. From my reading of the plant forum and some other sites I had the impression that PH controller were used and almost necessary to keep the CO2 levels constant. If they aren't necessary, I can just put the regulator solenoid on a timer to turn it off at night and on in the morning. That would certainly be a lot cheaper. Did I misunderstand?

I don't want to hijack Andy's thread but if I'm heading in the wrong direction with my wife's tank, please let me know.

Hi Andy,

I apologize if I have confused and overwhelmed you. All of the information out there certainly overwhelmed me. Initially I wanted to avoid the expense and sophistication of a CO2 system and so tried to avoid going over the 2 wpg rule. Now I either have to redo my lighting again or up the nutrient levels substantially. I'm opting for upping the nutrient levels but am still in the process. I wish I had a substrate when I first setup the tank. It is going to take several hours now to take everything out to get that in.

It certainly seemed simpler years ago but then again I'm enjoying the tanks more now than before, my tanks look better now than years ago and the fish seem better also.

I'm glad Dave jumped in to clarify the PH controller. As I said I'm a newb at the planted thing but am still enthusiatic about it.

Greg
 
Ph controllers work by cutting off the CO2 supply once the ph has reached a certain level. When CO2 is injected it lowers the ph, however other acids are being produced in the tank, so these also lower ph. So basically the ph could be dropping for humic acid, if the ph gets to low, CO2 is stopped, and plants starve even though there isn't enough CO2 in the water, this is why we use a drop checker, we put in 4dkh water, so we know that at 30ppm the ph will be around 6.6

This is the same reason why CO2/ ph/ kh charts are innacurate.
 
Hi Dave,

Thanks for your input. I wasn't trying to scare him or anyone off planted tanks. One of the points I was trying to make is that a good planted tank appears to me to be a balance of lighting, plants and nutrients. The other point was it is easy to overdue the lighting if one doesn't understand the 2 wpg rule. (At least I certainly did.) Finally, I was trying to put the basic parts in one place to save him and other newbs like myself some time, confusion and aggravation.

Please help me understand your comment regarding the PH controller. From my reading of the plant forum and some other sites I had the impression that PH controller were used and almost necessary to keep the CO2 levels constant. If they aren't necessary, I can just put the regulator solenoid on a timer to turn it off at night and on in the morning. That would certainly be a lot cheaper. Did I misunderstand?

I don't want to hijack Andy's thread but if I'm heading in the wrong direction with my wife's tank, please let me know.

Hi Andy,

I apologize if I have confused and overwhelmed you. All of the information out there certainly overwhelmed me. Initially I wanted to avoid the expense and sophistication of a CO2 system and so tried to avoid going over the 2 wpg rule. Now I either have to redo my lighting again or up the nutrient levels substantially. I'm opting for upping the nutrient levels but am still in the process. I wish I had a substrate when I first setup the tank. It is going to take several hours now to take everything out to get that in.

It certainly seemed simpler years ago but then again I'm enjoying the tanks more now than before, my tanks look better now than years ago and the fish seem better also.

I'm glad Dave jumped in to clarify the PH controller. As I said I'm a newb at the planted thing but am still enthusiatic about it.

Greg
 
Hi Greg,

Please help me understand your comment regarding the PH controller. From my reading of the plant forum and some other sites I had the impression that PH controller were used and almost necessary to keep the CO2 levels constant. If they aren't necessary, I can just put the regulator solenoid on a timer to turn it off at night and on in the morning. That would certainly be a lot cheaper. Did I misunderstand?

Save yourself a fortune and just buy a CO2 drop checker and 4dKH solution. Bring the CO2 on an hour two before lights on to let the levels build up for plant growth, and switch it off an hour or two before lights out.

I wish I had a substrate when I first setup the tank. It is going to take several hours now to take everything out to get that in.

With decent water column ferts you don`t have to change from an inert substrate.....more money and grief saved. :)

It certainly seemed simpler years ago but then again I'm enjoying the tanks more now than before, my tanks look better now than years ago and the fish seem better also.

It may be a bit more complicated nowadays, but keep it as simple as possible and the results are well worth it. There are some stunning planted tanks around with inert substrates and no pH controller.

Dave.
 
Save yourself a fortune and just buy a CO2 drop checker and 4dKH solution. Bring the CO2 on an hour two before lights on to let the levels build up for plant growth, and switch it off an hour or two before lights out.

Thank you Aaron and Dave. I'll stick with the timer and drop checker. I owe you both a beer. Now if I can just get across the water, you can collect. :good:

With decent water column ferts you don`t have to change from an inert substrate.....more money and grief saved. :)


Great! Less money spent. What I didn't mention is that I was just going to have to :lol: buy another aquarium to house the fish in while the change was being done, then I was going to have to set it up because I can't have a nice unused aquarium sitting empty after the change. Seriously, thank you. Less work and more enjoyment of the aquarium is better right now.

It may be a bit more complicated nowadays, but keep it as simple as possible and the results are well worth it. There are some stunning planted tanks around with inert substrates and no pH controller..

The two larger tanks I've got right now certainly look a lot better than anything I had years ago. And the fish look great under the converted light with its high CRI. I've temporarily solved the highlighting problem by putting a piece of frosted glass under it and then adding some white electrical tape, but I am looking forward to getting the CO2 up and running. The blue tetras and gold rams were really pretty under the high light. I'm looking forward to getting the nutrients right and seeing the plants grow. I've even got my eye on a couple of higher light requirement plants once I get this sorted out.

Andy, sorry for the thread hijack. It appears there are better and easier to get supplies in the UK than in the states. Good luck.

Greg
 

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