Neon Tetra Disease cure experimentation

TwistedHelix

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So. Personal one this - in 2009 my tank got NTD and ruined my passion for fish keeping. I am back and ready to fight it if it rears its ugly head again.

NTD is a Apicocomplexa parasite, similar to Malaria, but seems to eat through muscle tissue rather than having a lifecycle in blood cells.

However - they should be genetically similar and have similar biochemistry.

Has anyone tried theraputic doses of Quinine? This is a compound still used today to treat malaria and it works by making the parasite hypotonically explode (Got your attention now!).

It is cheaply available in Tonic water.

The Theraputic dose is 10 mg/kg. Fish weigh 20-50 grams for most species that get NTD, and tonic water has ~80 mg/Litre.

So the fish needs 0.5 mg for theraputic dose. So in a 40 litre quarantine tank pour in a litre bottle of tonic water.

Has anyone tried it?

Anyone with suspected NTD willing to give it a go?

It is incurable and fatal so...may as well try it.
 

LyraGuppi

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Interesting. I remember having it with my neon tetras over three years ago, it definitely put me off buying any more.
If you do try it out, document any progress here. It would be amazing if you figure out a cure!
 

LUC1FER

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might try this for my little babies.... the melafix and pimafix dont seem to be doing anything or making it get better.
Went to local fish store and woman advised me to take infected out and kill them humanly.. which I dont want to do.
 

thrujenseyes

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So. Personal one this - in 2009 my tank got NTD and ruined my passion for fish keeping. I am back and ready to fight it if it rears its ugly head again.

NTD is a Apicocomplexa parasite, similar to Malaria, but seems to eat through muscle tissue rather than having a lifecycle in blood cells.

However - they should be genetically similar and have similar biochemistry.

Has anyone tried theraputic doses of Quinine? This is a compound still used today to treat malaria and it works by making the parasite hypotonically explode (Got your attention now!).

It is cheaply available in Tonic water.

The Theraputic dose is 10 mg/kg. Fish weigh 20-50 grams for most species that get NTD, and tonic water has ~80 mg/Litre.

So the fish needs 0.5 mg for theraputic dose. So in a 40 litre quarantine tank pour in a litre bottle of tonic water.

Has anyone tried it?

Anyone with suspected NTD willing to give it a go?

It is incurable and fatal so...may as well try it.
Wow....so interesting!
I hope someone gives it a go.
....and I have to ask, seeing your screen name "twisted Helix"...
did you watch the TV series a few years back "Helix" about scientists for Disease Control?
It was excellent (I thought so anyway).
 
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TwistedHelix

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Lyra - I will be avoiding neon tetras for the rest of my fishkeeping life. But it does seem to affect other fish too so we'll see.

Luc1fer - excellent live data to be had. Mind stating your quarantine tank size etc? We should calculate the LEL/HEL theraputic dose of the tank and also redose it as Quinine has a metabolic half life of ~12 hours (in humans admittedly).

If you do try this we should try to keep a log of everything you do in a thread.

Jen - I have not seen that TV series. I tend to have a twisted/dark sense of humour and I love science hence the Helix part. I noticed the two together looked quite fitting.
 

StevenF

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I did some reading up on this parasite. It has a life cycle very similar to ICK. So that means a UV sterilizer might work. Also elevating the temperature of the water might work. But that said for what it is worth my fish have never got ICH or any of the common disease discussed on forums. Don't know why. So I don't have any experience with these diseases.
 

LUC1FER

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I have setup a QT which is 28ltrs with a wee pump and heater, decorations etc..

The wife will treat the neons with tri-sulfa and melafix. for 2 weeks while I am at work and when I return if they havent improved or started to drop off I will give the tonic water a go.. lol
 
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TwistedHelix

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Ah excellent news Luc1fer.

Steven F - Similar life cycle but not necessarily as weak to the same treatments?
 

StevenF

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Similar life cycle but not necessarily as weak to the same treatments?
Yes we don't know if it has the same sensitivity to temperature as ICK. heat may have a minimal affect on them. Or they may be they would be more sensitive to the cold. It would take detailed studies to ermine that.

However as to UV sterilizers all forms of life would be affected. For large animals it would take a significant amount of exposure to to UVC to be killed (mainly due to the larger size). Shell fish would have some protection from the shells but their soft tissue would eventually be affected. Microscopic parasites have mostly transparent bodies and would die quickly when exposed to UVC light in UV sterilizers. Algae and bacteria would be also affected.
 
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TwistedHelix

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The issue is NDT is inside the fish. It eats from the inside out. The UV wouldnt penetrate the skin of the fish or the flesh.
 
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