Need help with new tank and Discus

[Back43]

The other fish...we put fish in the tank to start it up. About 4 days later...we added the rest. Then two days later...my son came in with the discus. It isn't a matter of wanting any money back for the discus. It was a present from my son...and it was a big deal for him to do this for me. I'm dealing with not wanting the fish to die and not wanting to offend my son. I understand what you are saying and I did things wrong...I get that. And thank you for explaining it to me so kindly. I just want to try to save the fish and keep my son happy. I will remove 25 percent...one more question. Should the water be removed with a vaccum from the bottom of tank or just from the tank in general? I'm worried about using the vaccum and distrubing the discus.

My temp was already at 80 degrees...so at least I got something right, eh?

Thanks so much...and I will get back with you. Hopefully with good news?!

 

[abstract]

use the vacuum....clean up the bottom...then hover the vacuum near the top to remove the water and not disturb the fish for the rest of the cleaning process...remember you MUST use dechlorinated water to fill (either let the water set out for a day or use a tap water conditioner product)

i know it would offend your son to return it, but is there any way of returning it temporarily as i have suggested? surely he would be more heartbroken to see it dead then to not have it in the tank for a couple weeks


EDIT: also, i really have to praise you for coming to this forum and openly asking for advice and accepting our suggestions...most people wouldn't even have bothered to ask for advice, let alone USE that advice...i really hope everything works out for you

 

[elgecko]

Adding all those fish after 4 days of running the filter is not enough time to establish the bacteria needed to convert the ammonia. Angles and Discus are very sensitive to ammonia and nitrite.
Your tank will have an ammonia spike in about another week and a half to 2 weeks. Then after that you will have the nitrite spike. Typically it takes 4 - 6 weeks to cycle a tank before it is safe to add fish. I always add fish food twice a week when cycling a tank.
Discus can tolerate high Ph. My Ph is 7.4 Temp 83 degrees. As long as the Ph is stable you will be ok with discus, once the tank has cycled.
If you keep all those fish in the tank, feed litely, twice a week, and do regular 35% or more water changes.

 

[Back43]

Well it sounds like a story I'm making up. But honestly...the store he bought it from is closing. They are clearing out their inventory currently. We are thinking about buying one of their tanks. So truly...taking the fish back to that store isn't an option.

We live in the country and have well water...no chlorine.

 

[abstract]

totally understandable that the store is closing...follow our advice and closely monitor the water and hopefully everything will work out for you....

just keep in mind that you may need to do daily water changes if the levels get too out of control....the test kit is the most important part for you at this point...let us know how it all works out

 

[sylvia]

I understand the problem with your son and all. I just thought you didn't want to return it because of the money issue as you mentioned the guarantee and discus are usualy quite expensive fish. I don't blame you for any of the mistakes you have made. We've all made them before. It's inevitable when LFSs etc don't provide you with good advice to start with. Sorry if I sounded otherwise it's just very frustrating.

Anyway use the vacuum to take water from just above the gravel. It should also suck up any fish waste. However, don't stir up the gravel too much.

You didn't say whether you know about cycling or not so I'll explain it anyway . Basically, fish produce waste. The waste contains ammonia. Ammonia is highly toxic and poisons fish. After about a week of this ammonia being in the tank, good bacteria start to grow which feed on it. They convert ammonia to a slightly less harmful compound called 'nitrIte'. NitreIte is still very poisonous. A little while afterwards, another kind of good bacteria also starts to grow. It feeds on the nitrIte and turns it to nitrAte. NitrAte is not realy dangerous but should be kept under 20ppm (get a test kit) or at least under 40. Because you have the discus, I'd actualy aim to keep it very low indeed. The only way to remove nitrAtes effectively is by doing regular partial water changes.

Now the thing you must know about these good bacteria is that they live in your tank's gravel and in the filter's media (sponge or whatever). Chlorine and anti-bacterial medications will kill them. The reason I said not to stir the gravel up too much before is so you don't disturb the bacteria at this crucial stage. Similarly, it is vital that you NEVER use water straight from the tap unless you have used a de-chlorinator in it first. Also, because the bacteria colonize your filter, you must avoid changing the media. If it becomes clogged, take the media out and rinse it carefuly in some old tank water - again, if you use water right from the tap without de-chlorinating it first, you'll kill off the good bacteria.

About the cycling process - ammonia goes to nitrIte and then nitrIte is converted to nitrAte. I've already mentioned that a nitrAte level under 40ppm is safe for most fish (keep it lower for discus). Safe levels for ammonia and nitrIte are strictly ZERO. You shouldn't have ANY of these substances in your tank. If they are there, you should do a water change.

Just to make something clear, I think we would agree that the fish' lives are a priority. Normaly, a full cycle would take about 6 weeks, when you are doing daily water changes to keep ammonia and nitrIte at safe levels for fragile fish, you are also depriving the good bacteria of a lot of food. They'll still multiply but more slowly. Just be aware of this. It may take longer than usual. I didn't mention it before.

Oh and something you might find useful and would save you a LOT of trouble - ask your LFS for some old filter media and gravel right from one of their established tanks. It will contain a good amount of the good bacteria and that should get your own colony going. It could make the cycle almost instant if you're lucky!

 

[Back43]

Ok...I'll test the water for nitrates and ammonia. And remove 35 percent of the water daily for the next 6 weeks. And feed only twice a week...lightly.

Thanks alot! Wonderful forum that I can come here virtually unknown by anyone and get such help so quickly. Thanks again!

I will come back and let you know how we get on with things.

 

[sylvia]

edit: double post sorry

 

[sylvia]

Once again a lot of people posted before me. The fact that you have well water is going to realy save you trouble... I hate having to use de-chlorinator Oh but do test your water as some well water has high ammonia, nitrIte or nitrAte in itself. (in which case - if the nitrAtes are high - you'll want to get a LOT of plants for your tank).

 

[abstract]

just a note...35% daily MAY be too much....i have never kept discus so i am not sure if it will stress more than help them or vice versa so hopefully someone else can let us know if that is too much...i would only change out what i NEED to daily to keep the levels low - as stated earlier, by changing water you remove what the bacteria needs to grow/reproduce which will slow down your cycle..

however, it is more important to keep the levels in control than to speed up your cycle...glad you found our posts useful - do some more reading of the "pinned" topics in the various forums and you will learn more than you ever wanted to know about fishkeeping!!!

 

[Back43]

Ok...my husband removed about 25% of the water. Added more water. Then we went to the fish store. They would not sell or give us gravel from the tank. But instead sold us "Cycle". It's susposed to be the good bacteria? He said to follow the bottle's directions but to use it everyday instead of once a week.

We bought a "wet" test kit while we were there. We came home...added the Cycle. Then tested the tank for ammonia and nitrates. Both read at .50
So now...I wait until tomorrow or the day after before removing / adding more water?

Thank you!

 

[abstract]

it seems like you are moving in the right direction - unfortunate they wouldn't give you any gravel though! many will say that the cycle products are not effective whatsoever, and others may disagree....i dont' know about adding it everyday because I have never used it before, but be careful with it (maybe every OTHER day) at the most during the beginning....

do daily water changes to control the ammonia and nitrites...when levels begin to level out in the low ranges, you can then start doing water changes every other day/every third day/every week and so on

 

[WILDER]

Is this the product.
http/www.just4fish.com/mall/hagencycle.asp

 

[Back43]

Yes. that's it. So use the cycle every other day and do water changes daily until the ammonia and nitrites go down. Ok.

Thanks again!