Mysterious Deaths

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If you have plenty of surface turbulence you will have low CO2 levels and high oxygen levels.

Leave the lights on as per normal. The more stabile the tank and routine the better it is for the fish.

Very few UV sterilisers are big enough to kill everything in the water. To get a 99.9% kill rate you need to have a slow flow of water running thru a good size unit. If the water is not exposed to the UV light for long enough it won’t kill much. The units should not affect the water chemistry as UV light normally only affects organic matter.

A hydrometer (salt measuring device) won't pick up copper or anything except salt.
You need a copper test kit for measuring copper. If you let the tap run for a couple of minutes it should wash out any copper that has accumulated in the pipes.
 
We bought a pretty good UV sterilizer unit, cost us about $200. I do know it will only kill free swimming particles in the water, that which is not in the gravel, filter, or on the fish, but we have read other places that UV's are not great for well planted tanks as they decrease some of the nutrients the plants take in. Thats what I thought about the copper test kit. But if there was copper in the water, wouldn't you think it would kill the invertebrates before any other fish? We have ghost shrimp all of which are still alive. I have to go to another pet store to get the copper tester, none of the other LSF we found had any. Since it's a long weekend we might have to wait until tomorrow to go. I'll leave the lights on then, and there is alot of surface movement so I don't think oxygen will be an issue anymore. The discus and ram are both still alive, which is good considering they have had the symptoms and have not died longer than any of the other fish that died.
 
Hi,

If you're getting a 280 gallon tank are you re-inforcing the floor? That's some weight!! Please stick around and show us pics when you get it!

Cheers
 
I agree with the buckets & bad back being a bad combination, I would be dead trying to do my tanks with buckets. I would double up on the water conditioner, it certainly won't hurt anything, and could end some of your problems.

You can get cheap TDS meters, they are a common item for folks that do use ro. This is about all you need; http://www.ampac1.com/tds.htm I have a similar one, you don't need lab grade equipment for a home aquarium.

With harder water with a higher pH the insides of your supply lines will build up a lime coating, effectively sealing the pipework from leaching any metals. This is one of the reasons municipal water companies add buffers. If your building is older than a year this buildup will have sealed up the pipes. If there was any significant amount of copper it would have taken out the inverts. My 55 year old house has a length of lead pipe going from beneath the house to the meter, this is a common setup, and causes no problems, the same thing happens to lead as to copper.

I have tried various black water extracts over the years, they don't work as well as fresh water & plenty of it. I have plenty of products kicking around the fishroom with dust on them, the 2 liter jug of Prime is not one of them. Fresh water is the best preventive medicine for fish, and probably the cheapest. The water column holds no bacteria that are beneficial to fish, so you are not hurting anything with more water changes.

Aqua Plus does nothing for ammonia, from what I'm seeing. Since this is a component of chloramine you would want a water treatment that deals with ammonia. One of the two I mentioned would be a better product.
 
So I want something that contains ammonia? Does the bacteria feed off ammonia or nitrates? I never even thought of looking into that. I guess you learn as you go. So your saying that the older the house the less copper will be in the water? My house is very hard higher pH, and is about 30 years old. I am trying to get one. I was actually looking on buy and sell in my area and there has been a few tanks for great prices around the 280 mark. I figure there will probably always be someone selling a big tank for cheaper than buying new. I have to save up, and hope to get it by the end of the year. And I am hoping to be taking over the whole house I live in. I was actually thinking about the weight. LOL the whole thing would probably fall through the floor if I even tried it. At least the basement is cement.
 
You want a product that states that it removes ammonia. Chloramine is a combination of chlorine & ammonia. Sodium thiosulfate, which is in all dechlorinators, and is usually the only component in the cheapest dechlorinators, will take out chlorine, and split the chlorine/ammonia bond in chloramine, leaving you with ammonia. You already know ammonia is not good, so do the manufacturers of your better water conditioners. To deal with this they use hydromethane sulfinate, which converts ammonia to ammonium.

Ammonium is harmless to fish at the levels found in an aquarium, but used the same as ammonia by your nitrifying bacteria. Your bacteria have two different types, one that converts ammonia into nitrite, and another that converts nitrite into nitrate. If your water supplier jacks the chloramine for whatever reason, and your water conditioner doesn't deal with ammonia, you will get an ammonia spike. Often, when there is less chloramine you can get by with a cheaper sodium thiosulfate dechlorinator, letting your nitrifying bacteria deal with a small short term ammo spike. If they hose the water with chloramine the increase in ammonia can cause problems.

Along with this increase in ammonia, which can be converted to ammonium, may come a nitrite spike, as your nitrifying bacteria, which is converting the excess ammonia/ammonium is temporarily overwhelmed converting the nitrite to nitrate. This is usually a short term situation in a mature tank, and will clear itself up within 24 hours.

These are the reasons that it is a good idea to learn as much as you can about your water supplier. Generally they will dose higher late in the evening during the week, in anticipation of increased water usage in the morning as folks get ready for work. Knowing this, the best nights to change water are Fridays & Saturdays, the worst is Sunday night. Any weekday around noon or so is good for water changes. This does not take into account any seasonal or weather affects on your water supply.

The main reason not to trust your water supply is that they err on the side of caution, and are often a patronage job. This means that on the weekend some politicians ner do well relative has got the crummy shift, and will seriously dose the water.

As far as any metals are concerned, any water conditioner that states that it deals with heavy metals contains ethylenediaminetetraacetic acid, or EDTA. This is a chelating agent that binds heavy metals, removing them from any availability to your fish. Obviously a water treatment with EDTA is not one you want to use if you are using copper as a treatment. I use one with EDTA due to my water supply, which I could write a short story on, Chicago has a river that they got to switch directions 100 odd years ago, but it sometimes goes the wrong direction.

In a 30 year old house any copper in the plumbing is sealed long ago, nothing to worry about unless you have had recent plumbing work where they used copper. Your plumbing may be galvanized steel, all of mine is, as is common in older houses in my area. A quick look around unfinished areas should tell the story on that.
 
Thanks for all the good info. I never knew much of a difference in water conditioners, and always relied on the aquaplus. Next time we purchase some I will look for ones containing the things you mentioned. Yesterday when I tested my water before the water change. I noticed that the ammonia was not at 0. A few days earlier it was, and the nitrites were up again. So I am thinking maybe the nitrites may have had something to do with the deaths. So I cleaned under all the rocks, gravel, you name it, did a good siphon job, replaced everything, and filled back up with water. I also purchased some nitrite remover and placed it in the filter. I will be checking my water parameters again tomorrow before another water change, and continue doing a small water change every day over the next week. At least my tank isn't over stocked anymore, so hopefully I can get things stable again. I am thinking though, we didn't find some of the fishes bodies right away, so they may have been decaying over a day and causing some rise in these levels again. But no dead fish in the last few days, and the ones showing symptoms have not yet died and are looking a little better. How would I go about learning about my water supply? There were also no major plumbing renovations done in the house recently.
 
As far as any metals are concerned, any water conditioner that states that it deals with heavy metals contains ethylenediaminetetraacetic acid, or EDTA.
did you just punch a pile of keys to make that word up :)
 
My little dog likes to nap on my lap when I'm on the computer. Sometimes he wakes up & walks on the keyboard. :lol:

That alphabet salad of a word is probably why it's referred to as EDTA.
 
I like that, alphabet salad word :)

I try not to let the dogs use my computer. They never get off the bloody thing and I can never use the phone.
 

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