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ok people , there has been a possable change in plan ;( . i took the mrs to the LFS today, and the first thing she said was i want those squishy thing in there !(coral) and that big round fish (poripine puffer). well what am i to do :S . i tolder her that there is no way in hell that she can have both( i know it has been done in other tanks but not in mine), so after a fare old talk to her she has let me off on the puffer side of things , (which is a bit of a shame as i love those little guys).

anyway, so we started to look at the soft corals as we were told this is what we should start with (num nuts proof :good: ). now i do trust this shop a fare bit ,but he said that after my tank had been throught the cycle and the clean up crew was doing its job and every thing is close to if not 0 , i could start to add my first coral. he told me to leave of fish for about 12 weeks just to keep the tank nice and stable. it this true, i gess it would work but is this the right thing to do -_- .

also he said to go for only corals that use the light as there food source. does this mean that some corals dont need to be fed :blink: . or am i beeing daft :blush: . i have read that people inject some form of plancton to feed the corals is this true. i know that plants live off light water and stuff from the ground so what does coral live off .

many thanks hope some one can help as i am way out on a lim :fun: .

many many thanks , should have lefter at home b/c i can see this costing more money :-(
 
Ok some basic coral education so you can learn why to feed corals first :). All corals are actually invertebrate animals, not plants. As such they need food for nutrients. Corals feed by catching and digesting food with tiny objects on their bodies/tentacles called nematocysts. Some envolope the food and bring it to mouths where the nematocysts are, yet others have the nematocysts on their outer body. Either way, the food is digested by enzymes released by these nematocysts and the coral absorbs the digested nutrients directly. Some corals have nematocysts/mouths large enough to eat a whole fish while others require phytoplankton or other smaller (barely visible to the naked eye) foods such as Cyclopeeze. I've seen a large open-bran species of coral consume a dead 1" percula clownfish whole. Usually corals do not attack fish directly, but if a dead fish floats over to a coral with a big enough mouth, it will eat it.

Because in the wild coral reefs are places of few nutrients, most corals have developed symbiotic relationships with micro algae known as zooxanthellae. Zooxanthellae live inside the flesh of the coral itself. When the coral senses daytime light, it absorbs water and puffs up to expose its zoos to light so that they can gather light for photosynthesis. After producing this energy, the zooxanthellae make some of it available for the coral to use. Thus the zoos give the coral nutrients. Zooxanthellae cannot live for long in the open ocean, so the coral provides them with a safe haven to live. Hence the symbiotic relationship.

When too much light is available, too many zooxanthellae are produced within the coral skeleton and the coral will expel them through its mouth or skin. If too little light is available the coral will puff up a lot to try and grow more zooxanthellae. Often in prolonged periods of low-light a coral will require direct feeding to survive.

Usually most soft corals with the exception of palythoas and zooanthids rely greatly on their zooxanthellae for nutrients. Soft corals are usually found in shallow waters where light levels are very high. In general, any coral that is more photosynthetic than it is non-photosynthetic is WAY easier to keep. Providing light is simple and its difficult to over-light your tank and cause a dangerous environment. It is of course possible to over-feed your tank, cause a nutrient spike, and kill everything in the tank, hence light-loving corals are much easier for the beginner. Some great soft corals for beginners are Sacrophytons (leathers), Kenya Tree, Xenia, Star Polyps, Zooanthids, Palythoas, Devils Finger, and of course Mushrooms/Ricordea. They are all exceptionally hardy species, like light, and benefit little from direct feedings (except zoos/palys, they like being fed if you really want fast growth). Larger soft corals like kenya tree, devils finger, and sacrophytons can grow ENORMOUS if cared for properly. I've seen a devils finger close to 3 feet long in our local aquarium... Pruning may be reuquired of your softies longterm.

Large polyp stony corals (LPS) are usually mid-depth corals and rely moderately on photosynthesis for nutrients. When high light is provided for LPS, they will expel many zooxanthellae (since only a few working a lot are needed) and get very colorful. Most zooxanthellae are brown in color, so having less of them brings out more of the coral animal's vibrant colors itself. Most LPS have large mouths or extensive sweeper tentacles packed with nematocysts that come out when food is sensed in the water. With the exception of echinopora, most LPS can eat larger feeder shrimp (brine/mysis/krill/etc) and benefit from such feedings. Feeding an LPS will give it a great boost of energy causing it to grow fast and color-up quickly. Because of their tentacles and desire for food, they are somewhat aggressive and will try to sting and digest corals with fewer nematocysts that they come in contact with. The general rule of thumb is that an LPS will sting/digest any softie or SPS and eat it. Some care needs to be taken to keep LPS away from other less-aggressive tankmates, but you get a feel for that as you go. Still, many LPS are also good for beginners, these include: Torch, Frogspawn, Hammer, Galaxea, Bubble, Brain, Open Brain, and Favites Brain. Others like blastomussa, echinopra, and acantastrea are all very expensive and somewhat difficult to keep.

Small polyp stony corals (SPS) have lots of very tiny polyps that they extend from hard skeletons. Their difficulty of care ranges from moderate to insanely hard. The difficulty with SPS is that they have LOTS of polyps capable of eating food, but these many polyps are VERY small and require very small food (phyto/cyclopeeze). These small foods are generally easily digested by not only SPS but also bacteria, and feeding them in a tank can often lead to nitrate/phosphate blooms and resulting algae blooms. Because most of the organism is a calcium-carbonate skeleton, they drain calcium and alkalinity from the aquarium quickly and when kept in large numbers will require supplimentation of those two chemicals. They are also very passive corals and will be out-stung by LPS and out-grown by softies in most tanks. They benefit greatly from high light because of their difficulty of eating food for themselves and at the same time they are very in-tolerant of less than optimal water conditions. However, they can be exceptionally beautiful specemins. Easier SPS include Pocillipora, Stylophora, and Millepora.

There are still other corals that have no symbiotic zooxanthellae. They REQUIRE feeding of phyto/cyclpeeze to survive as that is their only method of nutrient intake. They are also exceptionally difficult to take care of as they are intolerant of nitrates/phosphates which can be the by-product of feeding those foods. Many Sea-Fans (gorgonians) are non-photosynthetic and should be avoided by all except the expert reef keepers.

One thing that just about all corals have in common is that they prefer nutrient-poor water conditions. This means low nitrate, no phosphate, and low dissolved organics/amino acids. This nutrient poor water is best achieved via protein skimming in addition to LR (with a refugium with macroalgae if possible). Skimming is not really required for soft corals. For LPS, you'll need to get a decent skimmer, and for SPS you'll need a really big skimmer if you want good coral growth and health.


Wow that was a lot, sorry, I'm bored at work :) About what/when to add livestock wise, there are two schoold of thought... The one common around this forum is LR, cycle for a week to two, add a fish or two to keep the biological filters supplied with waste. After 1-2 months begin adding corals and very slowly add fish. A second school of thought which I've seen elsewhere among hobbiests is to add LR and a very minimal omnivorous cleanup crew, then wait 3-6 months before adding anything. Start with a few corals, and then one fish. Photosynthetic corals can be added nearly at your leisure by then while fish should be added exceptionally slowly as the nitrogenous filter is very low in capacity. The idea of the second method is to keep dissolved organics very very low. Without these dissolved organics, nuisance algae are eliminated from the aquarium and other beneficial life is given time to mature on the LR. It requires a LOT of patience though which most people are not willing to put forth. I tried the first school of thought but If I had to do it all over again, I'd go with the second in a heartbeat as my tank is now over-run with nusance algae :(.
 
ski, whole crap you should write a book, you have no idea how much that has helped me out, many many thanks for going to the time to do this for me . this has to be one of the most helpful forums that i go on, and it is a credit to you and and a select few that give such sound helpful advise, in the most helpful of manner. once again many thanks to all who have helped me out. i think you know who you are :good:

:good: to all
 
Thank you for the compliment, but as much as I may know, I'm always learning more. I may be experienced, but I'm by no means a pro at this. The quest for knowledge really keeps me going in this hobby though :)
 
ok people i am just about to get a few more bits and bots. but frist i thought i would ask you lot :) ok first off i will be converting my two Maxijet 1200 wih the Maxijet mod, so unless some one has two of the kits brand new i will be buying them of the guy in the states :). it looks to me that people get along good with this mod so i hope it will be ok for me. but what do you lot think :good: don't forget there will be two of them in there. also i will be getting my ro unit over the next couple days i hope, i have been looking at some of the RO MANS units , these seem to be the best that i can find , are they? also he has a DI filter add on to them althought i know that this is good, i do not know what it does. any one help me out on this one.

many thanks ROB :fun:
 
ive heard that you can use a brita filter (drink purifier thing) to achieve the pure water you need. in my position this would be more suitable for a 14gallon rather than an industrial mutha
 
I've seen the MJmod in action and it really works well :)

As for the RO filter. An RO unit will remove 95-99% of contaminants and will bring your water down to 2-4ppm of solutes. A DI module is used after the RO filter and removes the remaining particulate and brings the water down as close to 0ppm of solutes as possible. Carbon "brita" type filters do not perform the same function as a RO membrane and really only remove chlorine and other organic halogens (bromine, iodine, etc)
 
gawd damit. looks like ill have to take trips out to my lfs ever now and then. just a question for a 65l tank how many time would i have to do a water change (filterd with live rock + sand)
 
Do 10% (6liters) weekly. I'd invest in a couple 5 gallon buckets with lids or some other means of transporting a lot of water :)
 
ok just got back from one of my local fish shops ( i hate this place and every one in it, i don't think there is one tank without a dead fish, the problem is the place is just so so big, they must have well over 600 tanks full size 50 gal types). any way i went in to get some silicone for my weir that i wil be doing over the next few days. but the stuff they have given me just looks like normal house hold silicone. it also has fungicide in it wich can't be good. o so wish i could have gone to the normal fish place i go to. but this one is just around the block from me :( . i have sent an email to the makers of the stuff but i would like to hear what you lads think . at the mo it is a defo NO WAY in hell it is going in my tank . so thngs are put back on hold :(

many thaks Rob :)
 
Fungicide = bad. Get some plain old household silicone without fungicide :)
 
thanks mate going to give the shop a good talking to in the morning , how are places like this still open. the should be reported to the RSPCA for the amount of fish they kill, this is not a word of a lie every tank has no less than one dead fish in it :( :no:
 
ok people i have been down to the place where i bough my silicone from, and started world war 3 :D any way i left with a full refund and a sorry from the big man upstairs :D. i then went to the fish shop i trust, and picked up some Juwel black silicone. from there i went to a glass cutter that i know to have all the bits cut to size for me. with the glas and silicone it came to about 10.00 squid or $17.00. not bad at all :) . after i got back from Uni i started the overflow box 8)

here are some pics. it turnded out far better than i thought it would lets just hope it works :crazy:

frontoverflow-2.jpg


overflowglass.jpg


overflowbox2.jpg


overflowbox1.jpg
 
many thanks mate :good:

before i go and silicone this little box on,
is there any thing you would do to it. apart from the plastic grid thingy which is cut but not fitted on yet. i have seen some that have what looks like bubble raps in side them is this a good idea or should i just leave it alone. fit any one has some pics of thers that would be great i know that every ssytem is different but i would give more of an idea than what i have at the moment :blink: , i have also been told that the over flow hole will drain about 3000 LPH(the hole is 32MM), if this si true what size sump pump do you think i should run ?, it will most likey be Eheim unless there are any better units out there :) .

also i think one of you told me to have the overflow set 10mm lower than what i want the water level in the tank to be. is that write or have i just made that number up :hyper:

many thanks once again :) :good:
 

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