my teacher's fish tank is being conquered by territorial hillstream loaches

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AdoraBelle Dearheart

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That's a bit righteous. This forum would not exist if it weren't for people buying on trust, and putting their faith in pet store expertise. In an ideal world, everyone would do what they should before making decisions. This teacher, at this time of year, probably wants to do a little extra for the kids by setting up a tank, probably with his/her own money. He/she is probably coaching (unpaid), dealing with large class sizes, and earning less than a whole lot of other trades. When you have 120 compositions to correct, with constructive and educational comments on each, specialized programs for kids with learning or behavioural difficulties to design, regular lessons to design, parents to be answered promptly and most likely, your own classroom to clean, fact checking a clerk is the least of your 'to do list' things.

Don't undermine people who are trying. Provide useful advice.

I have to disagree, I'm sorry.
Not that teachers aren't overworked, underpaid, and underappreciated it while doing one of societies most important jobs - all of that is of course true.

But a class pet is an extra, not an essential, and it really doesn't take much time to do some basic research on a pet before getting it. Buying one on impulse and with no real idea of the environment, care and lifespan of the animal - nor what will become of it at the end of the school year- isn't okay with me, never will be. I wouldn't accept "I'm busy and didn't do any real research before getting it" from anyone else, and didn't even before the days of the internet, when all the info you need is right there at your fingertips. I find it even less acceptable when presumably, the pet is to help educate and involve the students, isn't it? What lesson is it providing if even the teacher doesn't know or care what the animal needs? We see so many horrible examples of neglected and abandoned class pets. But what is it teaching the children? They're not learning about the animal if even the teacher doesn't know, and they're learning the opposite of responsibility, research skills or animal care.
 

Rocky998

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I have to disagree, I'm sorry.
Not that teachers aren't overworked, underpaid, and underappreciated it while doing one of societies most important jobs - all of that is of course true.

But a class pet is an extra, not an essential, and it really doesn't take much time to do some basic research on a pet before getting it. Buying one on impulse and with no real idea of the environment, care and lifespan of the animal - nor what will become of it at the end of the school year- isn't okay with me, never will be. I wouldn't accept "I'm busy and didn't do any real research before getting it" from anyone else, and didn't even before the days of the internet, when all the info you need is right there at your fingertips. I find it even less acceptable when presumably, the pet is to help educate and involve the students, isn't it? What lesson is it providing if even the teacher doesn't know or care what the animal needs? We see so many horrible examples of neglected and abandoned class pets. But what is it teaching the children? They're not learning about the animal if even the teacher doesn't know, and they're learning the opposite of responsibility, research skills or animal care.
Yup. If you cant handle the responsibility, dont get involved
 

Rocky998

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Yup. If you cant handle the responsibility, dont get involved
And as a teacher you are a role model for ALL the kids. If you get a tank and dont do any research and just put water and fish in a tank, what are you teaching them?
 

DoubleDutch

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I have to disagree, I'm sorry.
Not that teachers aren't overworked, underpaid, and underappreciated it while doing one of societies most important jobs - all of that is of course true.

But a class pet is an extra, not an essential, and it really doesn't take much time to do some basic research on a pet before getting it. Buying one on impulse and with no real idea of the environment, care and lifespan of the animal - nor what will become of it at the end of the school year- isn't okay with me, never will be. I wouldn't accept "I'm busy and didn't do any real research before getting it" from anyone else, and didn't even before the days of the internet, when all the info you need is right there at your fingertips. I find it even less acceptable when presumably, the pet is to help educate and involve the students, isn't it? What lesson is it providing if even the teacher doesn't know or care what the animal needs? We see so many horrible examples of neglected and abandoned class pets. But what is it teaching the children? They're not learning about the animal if even the teacher doesn't know, and they're learning the opposite of responsibility, research skills or animal care.
Agree on that. I really don't understand why the LFS always is blamed when things go wrong. On the other hand people complain on this forum when an employee doesn't want to sell a fish for some one reason (then the keeper is King). Yeah right.
 

Rocky998

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Agree on that. I really don't understand why the LFS always is blamed when things go wrong. On the other hand people complain on this forum when an employee doesn't want to sell a fish for some one reason (then the keeper is King). Yeah right.
As pet store employees their job is to make sure animals go to proper homes and that the animals there are properly cared for. Sadly that isnt seen much anymore...
 

AdoraBelle Dearheart

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As pet store employees their job is to make sure animals go to proper homes and that the animals there are properly cared for. Sadly that isnt seen much anymore...
Nope. As pet store employees, their job is to make sales and ensure the pet store is in profit. That's it.
Should they give good advice, from a moral standpoint, and to get repeat customers? Sure. But strictly speaking, it isn't their job.


But there's a huge amount of personal responsibility involved when deciding to get a pet. It was drilled into me as a kid that you learn about them and whether you can truly care for them, for their lifetime, before even thinking about getting one. In the days when you couldn't just google the answers, but had to go find and read books on the topic. There's no excuse now, with Google in everyone's pockets.
 
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Rocky998

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Nope. As pet store employees, their job is to make sales and ensure the pet store is in profit. That's it.
Should they give good advice, from a moral standpoint, and to get repeat customers? Sure. But strictly speaking, it isn't their job.
My parents owned a pet store, and gave real advice, even when it would cost them a sale. But those were the days when people relied on their local pet store for any pet care needs beyond veterinary, although plenty came to the store for advice there too) where supermarkets and online stores weren't competitors. They could afford to turn people away if they showed signs they wouldn't care for the pet.

But there's a huge amount of personal responsibility involved when deciding to get a pet. It was drilled into me as a kid that you learn about them and whether you can truly care for them, for their lifetime, before even thinking about getting one. In the days when you couldn't just google the answers, but had to go find and read books on the topic. There's no excuse now, with Google in everyone's pockets.
Yah, I can "see" I guess where "it isnt their job". But when you get a job at a pet store, you should also know that it IS your job
 

JuiceBox52

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Yah, I can "see" I guess where "it isnt their job". But when you get a job at a pet store, you should also know that it IS your job
If they drive away sales by refusing to sell a fish they are likely to be fired… that’s not the way it works in practicality even if we wish it was
 

DoubleDutch

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Nope. As pet store employees, their job is to make sales and ensure the pet store is in profit. That's it.
Should they give good advice, from a moral standpoint, and to get repeat customers? Sure. But strictly speaking, it isn't their job.
My parents owned a pet store, and gave real advice, even when it would cost them a sale. But those were the days when people relied on their local pet store for any pet care needs beyond veterinary, although plenty came to the store for advice there too) where supermarkets and online stores weren't competitors. They could afford to turn people away if they showed signs they wouldn't care for the pet.

But there's a huge amount of personal responsibility involved when deciding to get a pet. It was drilled into me as a kid that you learn about them and whether you can truly care for them, for their lifetime, before even thinking about getting one. In the days when you couldn't just google the answers, but had to go find and read books on the topic. There's no excuse now, with Google in everyone's pockets.
Applause !
 

Rocky998

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If they drive away sales by refusing to sell a fish they are likely to be fired… that’s not the way it works in practicality even if we wish it was
And if the owner is firing people over it thats an issue. If he/she wants to get into the pet business thats fine, just dont sell animals if you wont be responsible. My LPS shouldnt be selling any animals imo
 

JuiceBox52

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And if the owner is firing people over it thats an issue. If he/she wants to get into the pet business thats fine, just dont sell animals if you wont be responsible. My LPS shouldnt be selling any animals imo
No pet store can stay in business if they refuse sales. Most non-chain pet stores are hardly surviving as is. It’s not practical in the real world unfortunately
 

Rocky998

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No pet store can stay in business if they refuse sales. Most non-chain pet stores are hardly surviving as is. It’s not practical in the real world unfortunately
Yah I know... Thats the sad part :(
 

GaryE

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Let's look at what went wrong here.
A fish most posters believed could not be aggressive was aggressive. Most online research will say that they are community fish, clearly. Most experienced fishkeepers here said that earlier in the thread.
The teacher did not have the Latin name, and used the trade name. I'm sorry but a minority of people who post here know the real names of their fish, and go with names of local stores or importers. Confusion with trade names is a feature here, and I have been criticized for using internationally recognized names because they aren't English.

If I hadn't had a psycho Sewellia, I would have accepted they're peaceful. If I hadn't seen obscure video on adaptations to fast water, it wouldn't have crossed my mind that current could control aggression. It never occurred to me when I had them., only after when I saw current used to control aggression in Geophagus argyrostictus, a rowdy member of a generally calm Genus.

So, if the teacher looked up the fish, they probably would have done what was done. The Sewellia were observed attacking, a legit observation.

If it had been a common pleco, how many of you would honestly observed they are often found close to outflows?
 

Alice B

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a pet store or 2 in the Dallas Fort Worth area were selling puppies with parvo for like $1800, and no warranty on pet health. Makes fish stores looks positively angelic. Truth is chain stores hurt the industry bad, and now you can buy fish on Amazon, one of my customers bought koi there. It is a tough business to be in. The whole common name vs latin name issue is a valid one, even with google in your pocket, and just because it's on the internet doesn't mean it's true. (community fish!)
 

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