My Fishless Cycle Question

[DaveyG]

Hi all, I would like some advice or clarification on my fishless cycle please

I'm about 20 days into a fishless cycle. I started the cycle with existing filter media from a cycled tank.

My ammonia goes from about 5ppm to 0ppm in a little under 24 hours.

The nitrites suddenly went up and up and are now off the chart (well kind of, they're at the highest the chart will go to which is 4ppm) and have been there for maybe 6 days now.

The nitrates are off the chart (110ppm).

PH is 8.5 which is what it is when it comes out the tap too (should I add bog wood to reduce this?)

So are those stats normal? Should I do a water change to get the nitrates down and would I be expecting my nitrites to drop soon?

Thanks

 

[gaz gun man]

sounds like you are in the second stage of cycling

as it goes ammonia into nitrite, nitrite into nitrate, i'd expect your nitrates to be so high.

I'd say continue as you are until you're getting clear results from ammonia and nitrites after 24 hours, then a large water change to get rid of the nitrates.

 

[DaveyG]

Yeah I had expected my nitrates to be high too. It means that the nitrites are being broken down, but just not as quickly as the ammonia is being broken down....right?

So there's no point in me doing a water change before my ammonia and nitrites both go to 0ppm after about 12-24 hours after adding 5ppm ammonia? At which time am I right in thinking that my tank will be cycled?

Thanks!

 

[tom_os]

dont do a water change until the very end. once that water change has been done you can add fish

once ammonia and nitrite go to 0ppm in 24hours i would then carry on for a week because it is common to get a spike of ammonia or nitrite so test every day for a week. if every day the results have been ammonia 0, nitrite 0. then do a big 70%-90% water change and add fish the next day

 

[DaveyG]

Cool thanks.

Out of interest - large water changes - what's the best way to do them? I have a 200L tank so if I were to take out 70-90% of that then I'd have to fill my 2 10L buckets, condition the water, let it sit for 20mins, then pour into tank, then repeat? Which would take aaaages! But is that the way these things have to be done? I'd also be worried that my filter would be off for that time as well!

 

[tom_os]

for my 240l i have a hose pipe. just suck on the end till water comes out. it will syphon out and to refill just stick the end of the hose on the tap and turn the tap on. add the dechlornitor, enough for the whole tank before you add the new water

 

[waterdrop]

Your fishless cycle sounds to be going exactly as expected. You are in the second phase, the "nitrite spike" phase. The next milestone will be when nitrite drops to zero within 24 hours. Then the next milestone after that is when your colonies can drop both ammonia and nitrite to zero ppm within 12 hours.

The most reliable test of the end of a fishless cycle that we found that ensures not having the nasty surprise of a big spike after adding fish is to do the patient thing at the end when you're most impatient: Wait until the first day when both ammonia and nitrite(NO2) drop to zero ppm (from 5ppm of ammonia) within 12 hours or less. That starts your "qualifying week" and you keep adding ammonia each day and watching it drop to double-zeros within 12 hours -- it doesn't have to be a true full week but ideally it will take you up to a weekend or preferred time for the big water change and first fish stocking. People who do this virtually never have spikes after bringing home their fish.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[DaveyG]

for my 240l i have a hose pipe. just suck on the end till water comes out. it will syphon out and to refill just stick the end of the hose on the tap and turn the tap on. add the dechlornitor, enough for the whole tank before you add the new water

So if I take out like 170 litres then I should add the full amount of dechlorinator to the remaining 30 litres and just add the water to that?

Your fishless cycle sounds to be going exactly as expected. You are in the second phase, the "nitrite spike" phase. The next milestone will be when nitrite drops to zero within 24 hours. Then the next milestone after that is when your colonies can drop both ammonia and nitrite to zero ppm within 12 hours.

The most reliable test of the end of a fishless cycle that we found that ensures not having the nasty surprise of a big spike after adding fish is to do the patient thing at the end when you're most impatient: Wait until the first day when both ammonia and nitrite(NO2) drop to zero ppm (from 5ppm of ammonia) within 12 hours or less. That starts your "qualifying week" and you keep adding ammonia each day and watching it drop to double-zeros within 12 hours -- it doesn't have to be a true full week but ideally it will take you up to a weekend or preferred time for the big water change and first fish stocking. People who do this virtually never have spikes after bringing home their fish.

~~waterdrop~~

I know I shouldn't but I am just getting so impatient now! I will keep waiting though! I can't wait to add fish and knowing that my nitrites are being broken down into nitrates means I'm 1 step closer! I know this is a bit of a stupid question because all cycles are different but how long would you guess I had left?

 

[waterdrop]

When refilling directly to the tank what I do is splash in half the amount of conditioner required for the whole tank volume and then as I near the end of the fill I splash in the other half. I'm sure this sort of detail is unneccessary but it makes me feel good. I like to do 50-60% water changs so I DO bother to roughly temperature match, despite evidence that it doesn't matter too much and that fish rather enjoy the cooler stream coming in sometimes.

Yes, believe me, your impatience is well-known to those of us who get a kick out of following dozens of fishless cyclers each month! Its always hard to tell what psychological trick will work for any given individual. Sometimes it works to think about how much your new fish will love the really perfect water you are setting up for them, that you want to show them you're the best fishkeeper they could've possibly come home to.. After a car trip, everybody runs to visit the restroom, right? Well after their trip home it'll be the same for them and you wouldn't want to be embarrassed that your tank went and mini-spiked ammonia on them, now would you?

Good fishkeeping is all about preparation and persistence. There might be all sorts of activities to be doing while your colonies are optimizing. You might want to fill out your notebook with good notes about all your wishlist species, looking into details about what stats they like or perhaps hints from other keepers about their personalities or ways to specially take care of them. You might need to study up on plant topics or work on different aquascaping plans for different looks for your tank, loads of stuff. Once you get your fish you may have years of the daily activities of keeping them and their tank. That makes this beginning time very special when you look back on it and your memory of it will be a lot more special if you know you tried your hardest to do the right thing.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[DaveyG]

An informative and satisfying read as ever waterdrop!

I can only fill the tank using a bucket, so is it really OK to add some dechlorinator to the remaining water in the tank, then fill with buckets and add the rest of the dechlorinator at the end?

I only ask because I thought the chlorine killed the bacteria and the last thing I would want to do is go through the whole fishless cycle only to ruin it at the end! So I'm really wary of putting non-conditioned water into the tank!

I've also added a bit of bog wood today - it was in one of the display tanks in the fish shop so pre-soaked and hopefully has a bit of bacteria on it too! This should lower the PH slightly so I've heard?

 

[waterdrop]

If you're going to be slaving away with buckets anyway then I'd just spash the conditioner into each bucket in an amount appropriate to just the volume in that bucket. If its a high-end conditioner like Prime then the amount to do a bucket will be so small that you just guesstimate a few drops in the cap anyway, usually no need to be that careful unless you're feeling extra thrifty with everything.

[Just to be complete: there're two reasons one wouldn't worry too much about what we were talking about. First, its harder for chlorine/chloramine to kill off bacterial colonies than one might think. Secondly, the conditioner is quite instantaneous and powerful, so it would make quick work of dechlorinating the new incoming tap water despite it having been put in what was left of the old water just prior to that.]

Bogwood can push the pH pretty stronly in the acid direction sometimes, varies a lot though. And its not usually a problem at all, the fish usually find the tannins the wood puts out to be quite healthy.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[OldMan47]

When I fill my tanks from buckets, my usual approach, I start filling the bucket in the sink, put in the Prime, and when the bucket is full it goes right into the tank. I do not, ever, wait 20 minutes before adding the water. If I waited that long, my weekend water changes would take all day. As it is, it can take a few hours to do water changes on 20 tanks.