My First Tropical Aquarium

[ravkular]

Hi everybody,

I am new to the forums so please go easy on me.

The missus and myself decided a few weeks ago to set up our first tropical Aquarium.

We have a 35 litre aquarium (50cm x 25cm x 30cm)with a light, filter, air pump, 50 watt heater, and two ornaments - 1 meduim sized boat with hiding places, and a little shark. We will be adding live plants as we add the fish.

We have filled the tank with water and have treated it with Nutrafin Cycle and Nutrafin Aquaplus. This has been like this for a week now.

We are hoping to start adding our first fish this weekend (as long as the water passes the test, and are hoping to eventually have the following fish in the tank.

2 x Mollies - Male and Female
2 x Swordtails - Male and Female
1 x Siamesse Fighting Fish - Male
1 x Cat Fish - Female
6 x Neon Tetra's - assorted

I have some questions before we start adding the fish.

1) is our tank big enough for all of the fish listed above?
2) are all of the fish listed above compatible?
3) in which order should we add the fish?
4) how long should we wait between adding fish?

Thanks in advance for you advice!

 

[Wills]

Hi welcome to the forum! Looks like we have caught you just in time! Few mistakes in what you have been taught so far but this forum is the best place to start out. First thing to say is this weekend is far too soon to add fish but Ill explain that in a sec.

First your stocking list:

For a 35 liter tank I think this list is pretty big really.

2 x Mollies - Male and Female - Quite a large fish for a 35 liter tank full grown mollies are pretty big so I would consider going for platies instead and I would stick to just getting 2 males because if you get a male and a female your going to get over run with fry and in a tank that size its just not an option as it will just get too crowded way to fast.
2 x Swordtails - Male and Female - I think your tank would be over stocked if you got platys and swords so I think you need to choose between 2 male platies or 2 male swords. Size wise they should be okay they are still quite large for the tank but the domestic strains (colourful ones) usually stay smaller than the wild ones (green/grey) but again make sure you get 2 males or 2 females
1 x Siamesse Fighting Fish - Male - Should be okay with the platties but not sure how they mix with sword tails. Although they can sometimes be a bit picky of tank mates in small tanks, so I think with regards the betta you should think about if you want a community tank or a tank based around the betta if its the latter it would be a case of the betta and the tetras rather than with the full community tank.
1 x Cat Fish - Female - what type of catfish? What does the one you are planning on look like? Often catfish need groups like cory catfish. But if its a sucker type catfish, by which you mean a Common Plec they get far too big for your tank but are commonly sold as suitable for small tanks with algae issues - also with catfish often gender is irrelevant unless you want to breed
6 x Neon Tetra's - assorted - Neons can often be quite weak due to mass breeding and so need a mature tank so I would add these in last.

Now onto the when to add fish bit. The products you have been using dont work at all, we can say this because we know that there is just no way the bacteria that is meant to be in them can survive in there. To support the bacteria needed it would have to stay chilled and at controlled temperatures which very rarely happens all the way from factory to shop floor. So I would stop using those products now.

The bacteria that is in the filter is there to break down harmful chemicals in the water that is created by the fish poop. The bacteria creates a cycle to break down harmful chemicals to safe chemicals and this is whats known as the nitrogen cycle! It goes like this - Fish Poo - Ammonia - Nirtrite - Nitrate.

Ammonia and Nitrite are highly toxic to fish and will kill them however once the cycle has changed them into nitrate it is pretty harmless in small doses and we as fish keepers have to control that level with water changes.

So thats why we need to make sure we have bacteria in our filter to keep our fish alive.

Now the way we make sure it is in the filter is at the start of the tank being set up we do whats called a cycle. There are 2 ways the first is fishless and the second is fish in. Fishless cycling involves putting small doses of pure ammonia which bypasses the fish poo but provides the same conditions to grow the bacteria to deal with the toxic levels. This means that you can garuntee no fish deaths or diseases because by the time you add the fish the water is 100% safe

The other way is the fish in cycle which uses the fishes poo to cycle the tank and this is what you were headed for. The main problems with this process is that while the fish are in the tank and creating the ammonia it takes time for the bacteria to colonize sufficiently to keep the water safe for the fish so they are exposed to the toxic levels for quite some time. So the way to control this is daily water changes otherwise you really do risk fish deaths and fish disease which can be even bigger problems as some diseases can sometimes live on in the tank and infect other fish you get in the future.

I would really recommend doing the fishless cycle it is so much easier to do. For a detailed article on how to do it there is a guide in the begginers resource center

Hope thats helped a bit!
Wills

 

[ravkular]

Hi Wills,

Thanks for your prompt response! You have probaly saved some fishes lives!

I appreciate your advice, and will be following it.

I think we will be going for the following now.

2 x Platys
4 x Neon Tetras
1 x Siamesse Fighting Fish - Male

These will all be added gradually once the water has been through the cycle.

I was lead to believe that all of the fish I originally wanted would easily fit in to a 35l tank by the staff at a chain petstore (Pets at Home). Thanks for putting me straight.

I will read up on the fishless cycle,and will wait until my tank is mature before getting any fishes.

I am still unsure whether to get male and female platys or same sex platys? Will the platys and betta eat all of the fry? if so does that mean i dont need to worry about overstocking?

 

[OohFeeshy]

You should be fine with six tetras.

Platys, really it depends whether you want fry. If you're keeping both sexes, it's usually reccomended to have at least two females per male, so if you're only having two then it's single sex only. If you get two females, you will get some fry- it's likely that most will be eaten, but some will probably survive. If you get two males, you won't get any fry.

 

[Wills]

Yeah as feeshy said the with all livebearers some fry will survive. If you get 2 males I dont think you will see any issues with regards aggression etc platys are really peaceful. But also as said if you get 2 females there will be a chance they are already pregnant when you buy them or at least holding sperm.

With pets at home, some are good some are bad and then equally within each shop some good staff some bad staff I wont slate the whole company but there are some pretty badly informed staff in there. Where abouts do you live maybe someone can recommend some other stores in your area for you to look around? To be fair often pets at home dont stock that many species compared to other stores you might see some more things to think about haha!

Wills

 

[ravkular]

Thanks Feeshy & Wills,

I think we will go with the two male Platys, and the six tetras.

We live in Reading. I think i wil explore the aquatic stores in Berkshire this weekend!

 

[ravkular]

Sorry, two more questions I thought of.

1) Which plants would be suitable for my tank?
2) How often and for how long should i turn the air pump on?

Once again, thanks in advance for your advice!

 

[dipsydoodlenoodle]

Sorry, two more questions I thought of.

1) Which plants would be suitable for my tank?
2) How often and for how long should i turn the air pump on?

Once again, thanks in advance for your advice!

I'd have thought almost any aquatic plant would be ideal for your tank.

As for the air pump that is optional; we have an airpump in one tank and it's on from about 7am until 5-6pm. You don't "need" an air pump.

 

[Wills]

Actually its sometimes a bad idea to turn off the airpump at night in planted tanks because at night the plants take up oxygen rather than Co2 at night and in heavily planted tanks it can impact oxygen levels for fish in the tanks.

Also since your in the UK if you have a homebase near you drop in and get some pure household ammonia thats the stuff you need for the fishless cycle

Wills

 

[waterdrop]

Hi ravkular and Welcome to the beginners section!

Really glad to see Wills got to you quickly this morning as I saw your post while eating breakfast but knew I wouldn't have time for it as the initial explanations always take longer and I had to run. He may have caught you before you went out and made the big mistake! The LFSs are really just for our supplies and fish and most of us here have learned the sometimes difficult restraint of not taking advice when in them.

Congratulations on making the decision to Fishless Cycle! Its probably the very best hands-on way to learn the "Nitrogen Cycle" and that's probably the most core aspect of the hobby. That knowledge will serve you throughout your time in the hobby, the learning going beyond just the issue of your first cycled tank. The best way to do a fishless cycle is interactively here in the beginners threads. If you read others threads you will quickly see we always have several fishless cyclers going through "the process."

First, to touch on your two immediate questions: If you mean by "air pump" your filter, then be aware that the filter should run 24/7. If you mean a separate air pump with airstones or other decorative air bubblers then that's a different question. Bubbler systems are almost completely a decorative thing for humans. They do not add to the oxygen in the water nearly as significantly as things that move more of the surface water, typically a filter outlet pipe directed at the surface. Nonetheless, airstones can help to well the bottom water up a bit, aiding in overall circulation and to the extent that the bubbles disturb the surface, they are helping a little with oxygenation. Since fresh oxygen is one of the things the beneficial bacteria in the filter need, it becomes a good thing for the fishless cycle, in a small way. If you have a noise problem (air pump in bedroom for instance) it's fine to turn it off at night, but if noise is not a problem then leave it on at all times.

Plants are, in my opinion, even a somewhat more difficult topic with a lot of aspects than fishless cycling or fish themselves. So the thing to keep in mind is that you are starting a learning process on them and that there are good articles to read at the top of the "planted tank" forum. Being a beginner and having a small tank, your approach will no doubt be what we call "low-light" (this is a method, with a number of details to master.) It will be important to identify low-light "easy" plants and I'll not mention suggestions yet as the smallness of the tank will have an impact on choices and some of our members may thus have special suggestions along the way. The type and wattage of your tank light will be of importance.

OK, with those two questions out of the way for now, let's get back to the startup of fishless cycling. The most important piece of equipment a beginner should have, maybe even before a tank, lol, is a good liquid-reagent based water test kit. Its purpose is as much for learning as for using. Most of us like and use the API Freshwater Master Test Kit but the Nutrafin Mini-Master can also serve, though the lingo we use around here is often about the API one. The tests in the kit are for Ammonia, Nitrite(NO2), pH and Nitrate(NO3). We also visit the pharmacy and look for two graduated syringes (ideally like a large eyedropper with squeeze bulb but marked in millimeters, but there are various things that will work.

The other next thing on our chemistry list is the finding of simple, pure, household ammonia. This is harder than it sounds and can be a bit of an adventure. On the forum we all get a kick out of hearing about each person's hunt for the right stuff. In the UK our most successful place is Boots (others are HomeBase, B&Q, RobertDyas) and in the USA its Ace Hardware.) The ammonia is sold as a "generic" cleaning solution and so is not aimed at fish hobbyists of course - we have to watch out because we don't want dyes, fragrances, surfactants or soaps in it. If we can see in it we want bubbles to only last 2 or 3 seconds after shaking, just like water. Products with soap or surfactants will often foam when shaken. If you haven't studied the "Nitrogen Cycle" article by BTT yet, you can just consider the ammonia to be "food" for the two species of bacteria we're trying to grow.

One other thing should be considered before starting: your filter. Let us know the type and model and each of the types of "media" (sponges, loose substances, floss, etc.) in the filter. Much to the surprise of beginners, tropical fish hobbyists don't necessarily accept what the manufacturers put in the filters but instead prefer sometimes to make changes and customize their filter. The media chosen by the manufacturers has become more of a way to market repeat purchases at the pet shop than necessarily the filtration material that best suits the hobbyist. We divide media into 3 types: media primarily for mechanical filtration (catching of debris), for biological filtration (the magic that our bacteria and cycle are all about), and lastly, chemical filtration, which is a special case and is used optionally depending of various situations one can be in.

Let us know where you stand with your progress and on the homework side, be sure to be reading the Nitrogen Cycle article as well as RDD's Fishless Cycling article that you've already been pointed to. There's a nice tank startup article by Miss Wiggle in there somewhere too!

~~waterdrop~~