Moral Issue

[quaver]

My nephew came down yesterday, and saw all the tanks I have.
What came out of his mouth stunned me sideways, and I really didn't know what to say to him.
I thought this might be a good topic to debate on here.

he said "Auntie Holly, you know they banned animals from the circus cos they thought it was cruel, and some people think caging beautiful animals for our pleasure is wrong. Well I think what you are doing with these fish is wrong. You have bought a cage without bars, and kept these fish for your pleasure.I think thats wrong!". Well I gotta tell you, I was shocked. My nephew is 11.

 

[Corleone]

Some 11 year olds are pretty precocious, but IMO sounds like he's parroting something he heard somewhere. Edit: I say so not to be insulting, but because it sounds verbatim like a PETA commercial.

Anyway, there was a similar thread recently about the ethics of fishkeeping, and there are valid arguments on both sides, though there were more on the pro side (Not that this is an entirely unbiased forum).

Circus animals are treated a lot differently than aquarium fish or home pets (caged, tanked, or otherwise). Some of them are cruelly broken to respond to training. Elephants are probably one of the more extreme cases - they have to be treated so badly for them to respond to training that once they learn they're stronger than humans, they become so dangerous they usually have to be put down.

 

[Tolak]

It depends on the morality of the keeper, with any species. Fish in the wild are at risk to predators, disease, and starvation. This is generally not the case with a moral aquarist, and most fish kept in a well maintained aquarium will live longer than their wild counterparts.

The animals in a circus are there to help provide a profit for the owner of the circus. That is not the case for the fish kept by the home aquarist.

Gotta love kids, they do come up with some interesting points at times.

 

[afireinside]

I think you should hit your nephew. Knock some sense into him.

Some of these fish are only around because we have maintained them. I know that there are some fish you can't even find in the wild anymore, but only in fish keeping.

 

[quaver]

I think you should hit your nephew. Knock some sense into him.

Some of these fish are only around because we have maintained them. I know that there are some fish you can't even find in the wild anymore, but only in fish keeping.

Interesting points guys, thanks for your input.

afireinside, I can't hit him, he is my sister's kid LOL, but I know what you mean

 

[Dorkhedeos]

Ehhh, just say that they will be eaten in the wild because they are vulnerable community fish and they cant hold their own

 

[pete0403]

I say educate and expose your nephew. Let him feed the fish and see how they react happily and excitedly to his hand near the tank with food, show him the filters and water quality kits and explain (he sounds very intelligent).

It sounds like he has already made up his mind without arming himself with enough information to decide for himself. No offense meant but it's so easy to get swept up in other people's passion on a subject before first researching it yourself.

 

[quaver]

yeah,what you are saying makes total sense. He's coming round on saturday, I might just do that.

Thanks Peter

 

[rhostog]

My daughter's homework last night was to prepare for a debate about the ethics of circus animals. I wonder if it's something your nephew's also done in school?

In addition to the good points made above, I'd say: some of the captive-bred fish we keep wouldn't survive at all in the wild - in particular e.g. albino and long-finned varieties. There's an argument that at least some of these fish are equivalent to domestic animals such as dogs, horses or cattle, and that captive bred fish are to a certain extent adapted to life in the aquarium. In fact, it's common to hear that certain captive bred species are adapted to different water pH, hardness etc. from their wild ancestors. Would your nephew also oppose keeping pets, horses, cattle? These are kept 'for our pleasure' in various ways (humans can survive perfectly well without pets, meat or dairy products) - but most of these animals wouldn't last a day in the wild. Tolak made an important point, that we have a moral obligation to care properly for them - this applies to all domestic animals, whether fish, dog, horse or cow. If you were keeping your fish in poor quality water in a tiny tank, then there's a valid analogy with the poor old circus tiger in a cage, but you're actually putting a lot of effort into ensuring your fish live in conditions as close to ideal as you can manage, free from stress and able to exhibit their natural behaviours. Our fish are certainly kept in better conditions than many farm animals - perhaps your nephew should take a look at the issues around intensive farming before having a go at you!

 

[Bblou]

I'd have told him it would be much crueler to keep them out of the tank... to leash and walk them....

atleast he cares. bless.

 

[Ace Of Spades]

I think you should hit your nephew. Knock some sense into him.

Haha I love you, Seconded................

 

[davefish]

Sounds to me like a bit of Socratic questioning is in order.

 

[Mauricia]

You could also point out that some fishkeeping certainly is inhumane, like people who don't keep the water stable and clean, and who overstock tanks and don't provide the fish with what they need to be happy. It's inhumane to put a betta in with a bunch of fin-nippers for example, or to not provide a shy fish with any hiding spots.
But when the fish are being taken care of, then I don't think it is at all like an animal in a circus. Those animals, in my opinion, are not living a life remotely similar to how they would naturally enjoy their lives. Fish tanks when properly set up are quite similar to a fish's nautral habitat, just minus the bad parts like predators.

 

[Ace Of Spades]

You could also point out that some fishkeeping certainly is inhumane, like people who don't keep the water stable and clean, and who overstock tanks and don't provide the fish with what they need to be happy. It's inhumane to put a betta in with a bunch of fin-nippers for example, or to not provide a shy fish with any hiding spots.
But when the fish are being taken care of, then I don't think it is at all like an animal in a circus. Those animals, in my opinion, are not living a life remotely similar to how they would naturally enjoy their lives. Fish tanks when properly set up are quite similar to a fish's nautral habitat, just minus the bad parts like predators.

Also its inhumane to use overly bright gravel (cringe)

 

[england]

the boy has got a great mind, wouldnt bother saying anything to him because hes right
we keep fish in a tank simply because we can do, obviously we should not and yes i know that they have predators in the wild but that is nature and weve came alone and interfered

i myself keep fish but its like an addiction........

like he says they have banned circus's....

a lonnnggg time ago people used to treat people such as john merrick and others much like a zoo animal and it was not even frowned apon, you imagine if you came across a so called freak show now down you local park 99% of people would go crazy and protest!!!

Its great that your nethew has a mind of his own at 11years old and whats even better is hes not affraid to tell people what he thinks...i myself applaud him