mixing fish {help}

[Josh]

can some one tell me what some good bigger fish [like atleast 3'' 4'' to 5''] are to mix with the smaller ones i have i would like to have a little variety in size.
i have a newer 30 gallon, fresh water, no plants, just rocks decor etc.
i'm not picky with color and such more interested in size

I have...

2 mollies
2 neon tetra's
2 rainbow tetra's {i think there called something like that]
1 striped tetra {one of the males]
2 algea eaters {cant remember exactly what kind small]
2 albino bottom feeders
4 dwarf frogs
and a handfull of ghost shrimp
I want to get more smaller fish and a couple of big fish can someone give me some advise {or a list of fish]

 

[Mr Miagi]

What about a pair of keyhole chiclids? Id deffinately add more neons though, they need a schoal, add 6+.

 

[The-Wolf]

2 mollies (I belive they do best with a little salt in the water, but could be wrong; I'm no expert on livebarers)
2 neon tetra's (need to be in groups of 6 or more, also do best with slightly soft water, can be sensative to water params)
2 rainbow tetra's {i think there called something like that] (Again a schooling fish that needs to be in groups of 6 or more)
1 striped tetra {one of the males] (as with most tetras needs a school, but can't be certain as never herd of "stripped" tetra)
2 algea eaters {cant remember exactly what kind small] (Otos? If they are they again are very sensative fish and should only be kept in mature aquariums)
2 albino bottom feeders (corydoras/ cories? need at least one more as they are gregarious)
4 dwarf frogs (congo frogs? if they are they need regular feeding with live food, bloodworms and tubifex are a must.)

So my point is, before adding any other fish you need to sort out the current ones you have.
Has your tank cycled? if you don't know what that is then more than likley it has not and you need to read some of the pinned articles on this forum about it.

 

[dwarfgourami]

Well, Wolf says it all really.

I would only add, find out what type your algae eaters are. If they are Chinese algae eaters, start thinking now about plans for their future (=getting rid of them!) as they grow large and extremely aggressive, and are not really suitable for a community tank except when very young. For future reference, it is a good general rule never to buy a fish until you have researched it thoroughly. Needless to say, if I myself had followed this advice regarding algae eaters I would not now have such traumatic memories of CAE's.

 

[Toadfish]

I agree mostly with wolf, he is right the mollies do better in a bit of salt. But the tank isn't to bad other then the sorting out of some of the tetras. But to actually answer your question, once things are sorted out you might try something like bala (or tri-colour) sharks, they can get upwards of 12" or Gouramis 5" or Rainbows 4" (they like a well established tank, 2-3months), just keep in mind if a fish can fit it in their mouth they will eat it, they're not to picky it food to them, so that means the neons might be in jeopardy if you add something larger.

 

[oldskool]

I have just brought 3 Gouramis (2 blue and 1 gold) they are stunning fish and quite happy with all my platys and red finned black shark - p.s a red finned black shark is also a lovely fish.

 

[Josh]

thanks for the input i plan on buying more fish to finish the schools very soon and with the mollies how much salt {i believe its sea salt you add} or is there another better specific kind, and i've read up on the cycling but its hard to get a good strait forward anwser on how its done with fish all i've really seen and read is that you get youre basics set up and then you can put some hardy fish in such as the mollies after a day or two and then let it sit a while before adding other fish? is this essentaily it? and my brother has a 150 gallon that hes had for atleast a year might it be a good idea to use some of his gravel and such to help start the bacteria in my tank?

 

[dwarfgourami]

The salt is special aquarium salt, but you can only add it if all the occupants of your tanks are happy with salt- which is certainly not going to be the case with your catfish, nor with the neons. Your mollies will survive better without salt than corys (if those are your bottom feeders) will with it.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

I agree mostly with wolf, he is right the mollies do better in a bit of salt. But the tank isn't to bad other then the sorting out of some of the tetras. But to actually answer your question, once things are sorted out you might try something like bala (or tri-colour) sharks, they can get upwards of 12" or Gouramis 5" or Rainbows 4" (they like a well established tank, 2-3months), just keep in mind if a fish can fit it in their mouth they will eat it, they're not to picky it food to them, so that means the neons might be in jeopardy if you add something larger.

Hmm, mollys don't need salt though to be healthy- i've had my 2 females for over a year and a half now and they have never had any salt or salt treatment and have never ever been ill once- but putting salt in a tank with tetras and other scaless fish will put the tetras and other fish's health at risk.

 

[sylvia]

No, cycling is not just letting the tank sit. Read through the links in my signature and if, after you've gone through them a few times, you still don't understand, feel free to ask questions. Also, once you've fixed all the tetra schools and everything, you wont have room for any more fish so leave that now and think about it then (you may be able to squeeze in a couple more fish about 6 months down the line when your tank's mature). About your tank being mature, just how long have you had it set up?

 

[Josh]

ok thanks again for the input the last question i have, I have a handlefull of ghost shrimp in my tank now it seems there life span is essentaily a couple of months and then there dying and getting ate by the other fish and everything else, are they really a good enough bottom feeder to have or will they possibly cause sickness or harm {because everything is eating them when there dead}to anything else.

Besides that i think i got it for the moment, until i get the fish and tank finished.
i'm sure all have more questions in the future so thanks.

 

[Josh]

sorry i do have another i have read thrue the cycling pages and how to do it i understand how to do the fishless cycling but with fish i still dont get it, how exaclty do you start it, is it buying the bacteria from the LFS or how i dont understand i know that fish pee ammonia and poop it and that the bacteria live off of it so how do you start that without adding fish if youre not doing the fishless cycling?

 

[sylvia]

You already have fish so a fish-less cycle isn't an option. You just basically now need to wait it out which means you need to do lots and lots of water changes (with de-chlorinated water) whenever you see ammonia or nitrIte levels increasing so that your fish aren't poisoned. You need to buy a test kit asap but, meanwhile, do a 50% water change tomorrow. Also, how long has the tank been running (sorry if you answered this earlier I may have missed it)? It usualy takes about 6 weeks for a tank to cycle fully so if your tank si older than that, it might already be cycled. The only way to be certain is to test your water.

Oh and the bacteria start growing by themselves - you don't need to 'start them off'. You see a few will be in the water and in the air and stuff and they will colonise on their own and multiply to handle your bioload and the amount of waste your fish produce. You don't realy need to worry about 'starting' the cycle - chances are, it's already begun.

However, you CAN speed up the cycling process if you get some old filter media from an established (and healthy) tank. Ask your lFS if they'll let you have some or, otherwise, get some gravel from one of their tanks. This is where all the good bacteria live so that will help get the colony growing quicker. It isn't necessary but it will help speed things up (a lot). Just inc ase you weren't aware of this BTW - tap water (which contains chlorine) kills the good bacteria so NEVER use it to clean out your filter or do wter changes. ALWAYS use de-chlorinated water for water changes and old tank water from a water change to clean out clogged up filters. Also, don't replace filter media (regardless of the instructions that the company provide with the filter!) unless it is absolutely necessary (ie media is actualy disintegrading). Even then, replace half and then a couple of weeks later the other half. Otherwise, you'll get a sudden ammonia and nitrIte spike that can kill your fish.


Now about the shrimp - they shouldn't realy cause any problems and I suspect your problem might either be that bad water quality (if cycling process isn't complete) is killing them or that they don't have anywhere to hide or are being attacked when they shed their skin. Though they probably won't cause disease directly, I wouldn't add anymore until you know the tank is stable as the rotting bodies will also add to the amount of ammonia in your tank and that obviously isn't going to help. Bottom feeders aren't realy necessary BTW. Get a gravel vacuum to clean up any lfetovers weekly during your regular water change. But realy, you shouldn't have any leftovers sinking to the bottom. Try not to over-feed your fish. Give them only tiny amounts several times per day. As long as they are getting a couple of flakes (or whatever) each, they'll be fine. Occasionaly, try feeding live or frozen bloodworms - your fish will love them - and a shelled green pea (the ordinary frozen kind microwaved for 10 seconds and with the outer 'shell'/'skin' removed)is good for them too but you might need to crush it for smaller fish like your tetras.

 

[Josh]

THANKS SYLVIA that was a great anwser, i have a 10 gallon thats got most of my fish still in it and they've been there for about a month now should i leave that tank running with the other fish for a few more weeks and then use that to boost the bacterial growth or would it be better just getting some from a longer established tank, i havent had any problems for a while but i did before with the ghost shrimp etc. thats why i asked, i would really like to add the other fish but all due whatever is best. My 30 gallon has been up for only 4 days i have the mollies in it cause there a hardy fish from what i've heard that seem to do better when put under stress i guess you could say, now i see that wasnt exaclty the right way, but too late now... so i'm not sure if i should wait with my other fish or just go ahead and start adding them over the next few days or so, any advice or additional advice i could get would be great.

 

[sylvia]

I think you'd be safer getting media/gravel from a longer established tank but only if you are sure the tank you get it from is healthy (ie no sick fish). Otherwise, borrowing a little media from your own 1 month old tank may do the trick but be careful as you can set off a re-cycle in that tank if you take too much and the bacteria left cannot cope with the fish waste in there. Also, I wouldn't wait to add the media as in about a week's time the new tank will be experiencing ammonia spikes which can be deadly - even to hardy mollies - so you want to get a bacteria colony multiplying in there as quick as possible. Realy, so as not to complicate things, I would just get some old filter media right out a tank from your LFS and from the very healthiest-looking tank you can find. You can also use gravel from their tanks if they don't want to give you media but take quite a bit. If you don't want it to mix with your own tank's substrate, it's fine to hang it somewhere inside your tank in a (clean) stocking prefferably - or use a (thoroughly rinsed) plastic bag with holes poked in to allow water to flow through if you have no stockings lying around . If you don't want to 'hang' the new gravel but also don't want it to mix with your own substrate, it's fine to use a small ceramic pot in your tank and put the gravel in there (make sure the pot doesn't have a small hole in the bottom - that kind of defeats the object as it'll let the gravel spill out and mix with your own. - and also make sure you rinse the pot in hot water (or boil it) before putting it in your tank). Obviously, if you don't mind mixing the new with the old, feel free to do so. I'm just suggesting these alternatives in case the LFS's gravel is bright pink while yours is a natural grey or whatever . I'm glad I could help. Please do still ask questions if you have any.