Mixing Cichlids

[CausticKat]

First of all, I would like to put it out there that I work at a commercial pet store and this is a topic to try and understand one of my customer's needs better.
 
She has a 120 gallon tank and she keeps Peacock Cichlids, Oscars, various other South America and African Cichlids together.
 
Now I have always been under the impression that keeping them together is not recommended because they are from different areas climate wise.
 
Can you  share any of your experiences with any kind of cichlid keeping.

 

[MBOU]

Like your finding out.. *yes* its possible....
 
But *yes* it is frowned upon, I have customers that do the same and all I can do is shrug it off and refuse to sell them anything on the basis that if one species doesn't kill it, the other will...
 
The fish come from countries with utterly different water parameters, South Americans come from rivers and generally very soft and acidic and are generally territorial and want their own space. African cichlids come from lakes, in very hard and alkali waters and live in large groups or shoals or just in generally crowded conditions.
 
The simple fact of it is, there is no middle ground, you cant mix them without out one of the other suffering. (that usually shuts the customer up when they try and argue the point that "well they are all still alive and not killing each other yet")

 

[CausticKat]

I tried that. But she is convinced that she is right and that I am just stuborn and defensive. She also offered to teach me a few things about Cichlids. And to be fair I could probably learn more about them than I already know but, I would much rather get my information from a source like this forum. I feel this is a more open and constructive way to learn.  That and honestly I am tired of being polite about the subject.

 

[char la]

i have had customers like this before. the best way i deal with it is by saying, 'yes, i have had customers who have kept hard water african cichlids with softer water american cichlids before. but i have to recommend that you dont mix the two because these two species of cichlid have evolved in different types of water so to keep either one in the others type of water would result in poor colouration, breeding and life span. you will never get the most out of the species by keeping them this way'. If they still want to buy cichlids from different shops, without listening to advice, im sure they will find out, sadly, the hard way

 

[char la]

btw, please remember that legally if you feel that a pet is going to live in an inappropriate enviroment you do not have to sell it. if the customer has a problem with that then they can take it up with your management which should then inform the customer of the Animal Welfare Act 2006
 
9 Duty of person responsible for animal to ensure welfare
This section has no associated Explanatory Notes

(1)A person commits an offence if he does not take such steps as are reasonable in all the circumstances to ensure that the needs of an animal for which he is responsible are met to the extent required by good practice.

(2)For the purposes of this Act, an animal's needs shall be taken to include—

(a)its need for a suitable environment,

(b)its need for a suitable diet,

(c)its need to be able to exhibit normal behaviour patterns,

(d)any need it has to be housed with, or apart from, other animals, and

(e)its need to be protected from pain, suffering, injury and disease.

 

[CausticKat]

I have explained it that way and she seems to just not care. Me and my whole team have agreed to not sell her fish any longer. She keeps coming back or calling. Thank you for that bit of legal information. I usually just refuse out of moral standards, but this is very helpful.

 

[MBOU]

It is right that as soon as anyone has purchased a fish and money has changed hands, the new owner is 100% accountable for the animals welfare under the Animal Welfare Act. This is actually why Aquatics and Pet Shops have absolutely no obligation to replace fish that died or take fish back, the way the law is written is that once money has changed hands, responsibility has been transferred. If the fish die, it's actually the new owners responsibility, they are actually legally responsible.
 
Pointing that out shuts people up when they complain because their fish all died after two weeks, an aquatics shop is just like that, they are there to sell livestock and dry goods, they are not responsible for the care of the fish once they have left and so if someone hasn't bothered cycling their tank properly... not the shops fault. In the same sense that if you buy food from a supermarket and when you take it home and cook it and it doesn't turn out right, you don't just go marching back down the supermarket!
 
That aside, as much as fish are legally counted under the welfare acts, it just isn't enforced. Its not great at the moment, bad pet shops can be reported! All shops selling livestock have to display their petshop license which has contact details on it for the council and the person who granted the license, if you aren't happy, that's who you call (and they are strict as heck people and will come straight out to check!), the RSPCA would mostly just laugh at anyone who called about a fish...
 
And yet there is no real way that the shops can report the fish keepers without being laughed off.
 
Unfortunately for the fish, your job is to care for them at the shop and to sell them to the most responsible home you can, you are well within your right to refuse the sale of a fish to a completely unsuitable tank but be careful with that if you value you job. Once the fish leave your premises, they are no longer your problem to deal with, you learn from it and you move on. You make the situation clear with the other staff (not to sell her fish) and with the customer (that she cant buy any fish until she sorts out her stocking). 
 
The main thing you have learnt from this? Other than some people are just idiots... is that you need to learn more about cichlids. We have a great cichlid section here with some really knowledgeable members, go knock yourself out asking questions!

 

[char la]

it is very sad that even nowadays pet fish welfare is still disregarded. thats why we have to do our best to educate as many people as possible about how to look after their fish correctly. yes, sometimes it feels like your shouting into the wind. im pretty confident our store is the only place in our area that informs customers correctly about how to keep goldfish, THE most mistreated pet (in my opinion) kept. When i get customers coming in saying theyve been told they can keep goldfish at 10 litres per fish it infuriates me! Considering that most people who get given the correct information choose fish more suitable for their aquarium means that the majority of goldfish sold for small tanks are unnecessarily killed. carry on fighting the good fight!

 

[CausticKat]

Most of my customers are very curious and eager to change if they have inadvertantly mistreated a pet. But some just never listen. I alway trying to educate them as well as keep broadening my knowledge.

 

[tomtomtom1230]

it is very sad that even nowadays pet fish welfare is still disregarded. thats why we have to do our best to educate as many people as possible about how to look after their fish correctly. yes, sometimes it feels like your shouting into the wind. im pretty confident our store is the only place in our area that informs customers correctly about how to keep goldfish, THE most mistreated pet (in my opinion) kept. When i get customers coming in saying theyve been told they can keep goldfish at 10 litres per fish it infuriates me! Considering that most people who get given the correct information choose fish more suitable for their aquarium means that the majority of goldfish sold for small tanks are unnecessarily killed. carry on fighting the good fight!

 
I feel like I'm shouting into the wind sometimes, certainly. As many of the people here know, I work in a fish store but due to money reasons, we rarely get any cool fish in (sad but true). Goldfish aren't our biggest sellers since I started. I just won't let somebody buy a Hugo Kamishi 30 litre tank and just chuck 6 orandas and a blackmoor in there.

Most of my customers are very curious and eager to change if they have inadvertantly mistreated a pet. But some just never listen. I alway trying to educate them as well as keep broadening my knowledge.

 
Alongside that, I always recommend they do some homework of their own I recommend they start here.