Mini Cycle

[PaulEbs]

Hi,

I recently changed my substrate to sand which has caused my 40 gallon tropical tank to start a 'mini-cycle'.

The readings today show:

Ammonia - 0.9
Nitrite - 0.3
Nitrate - 30/40ppm
ph - 7.5


Yesterday, I took our gibby plec [who had got too large for the tank] to the lfs and managed to swop him for a baby bristlenose plec. After coming home from work today I found the poor beggar dead - not from any wounds or bacteria - my guess is the ammonia and nitrite levels.

I am just wondering what the best methods + steps are to take during this new cycle.

I have put another mature filter in the tank from our coldwater set-up, hopefully this should speed it up.

I no-longer [stupidly] have the gravel that I replaced with sand.

Do I need to do big daily water changes? How often should I feed? How long does a 'mini-cycle' usually take?

Any help gratefully recieved!

Paul.

 

[jayjay]

That shouldn't happen from changing all teh gravel as it hold very little bacteria, if you have a strong enough filter, aren't overstocked, don't over feed etc. You shouldn't of had that problem.

You just need to start doing alot of water changes, 30% a day would probably work.

I wouldn't feed for a while, as that's just adding to your problems.

How long will it take, maybe a week, maybe more.

 

[PaulEbs]

Thanks Jayjay,

Although I'm not overstocked, don't over feed and the fluval 4+ should cope on it's own in 40 gallons of water.

But whatever caused it, I'm re-cycling my tank again, but this time with all my prized fish inside

I need to know the best methods for this scenario to keep my fish alive. Any advice from people who have had a similar incident would be most appreciated.

The tank stats today:

Ammonia - 0.3
Nitrite - 0.3
Nitrate - 50/60ppm
ph - 7.5


Is 30% water change daily enough to make this process quick?

How long should I wait before feeding the fish [at what point in the cycle]?

Thanks,

Paul.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

i'm not 100% sure but maybe dosing the tank with something like stress coat or melafix just to help them fight off any disease or problems they may pick up

 

[corrosive]

It looks like your levels have droppped quite well, i would personally do a water change (if you havnt already) as it will help with the levels.

Just check your levels tomorrow, i would imagine that they would hopefully be around the 0.1 or 0.2 mark. if this is the case just do a smaller water change and leave it be, if it rises again do a big water change possibly take out all your "important" fish just to keep them safe?


*dont forget, your common plec will need rehousing soon

 

[scubadoo]

I've had a similar problem recently - though as a result of something going wrong following my fishless cycle.

I've been doing about 35% water changes twice a day - which on 190l is a pain, but it seems to have worked and brought nitrite levels in excess of 5ppm on sunday down to .25 by this morning.

I have a thread in the emergency section outlining the problems & actions to date if it helps.

 

[PaulEbs]

Thanks for the response,

Corrosive - Sorry I need to change my tank details, I got rid of the gibby plec [wasn't a common plec afterall] the other day, and was given a baby bristlenose as replacement - although as the tank was re-cycling the baby didn't make it [completely my dumb fault].

I just hope all my other fish survive. I have a spare 30 gallon that can be used if the ammonia & nitrite levels rise too high - and a mature 30 gallon coldwater tank that I can clone it from.

Miss wiggle - I've never liked the idea of using chemicals to help a problem unless it is severe, but I've heard of people using salt to act in the same way? Now that my gibby has gone would this be alright if things did deteriorate?

I'm going to carry on with doing a 3rd of the water a day - as this was a very mature set up before the substrate transfer.

I am wondering if halving the amount of the fish in the tank will help at all?

Thank you,

Paul.

 

[Inchworm]

Hi PaulEbs

I had a similar problem when I moved a year ago. It was a terrible experience and I think if it ever happens to me again, I'll buy some Bio-Spira to help things along. This is a live bacteria culture that is sold in some lfs. To keep it active it must be kept under refrigeration until it's added to the tank.

There is another product, similar to this one, that is sold in the UK. Perhaps one of the members will know the name of it. Just don't confuse it with products that are supposed to "help" cycle the tank. This is the real thing.

 

[scubadoo]

There was a thread about the UK version of this a few days ago but I cant find it now and I cant remember what its called.

The person who used it though didn't rate it very highly.

The storage of this product is critical - ie it has to be kept refrigerated at all times.

How many refrigerated vehicles do you see delivering goods to your LFS ?
the only cold products mine have are frozen foods.

If using you depend very much on the whole supply chain knowing what they're dealing with.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

Thanks for the response,

Corrosive - Sorry I need to change my tank details, I got rid of the gibby plec [wasn't a common plec afterall] the other day, and was given a baby bristlenose as replacement - although as the tank was re-cycling the baby didn't make it [completely my dumb fault].

I just hope all my other fish survive. I have a spare 30 gallon that can be used if the ammonia & nitrite levels rise too high - and a mature 30 gallon coldwater tank that I can clone it from.

Miss wiggle - I've never liked the idea of using chemicals to help a problem unless it is severe, but I've heard of people using salt to act in the same way? Now that my gibby has gone would this be alright if things did deteriorate?

I'm going to carry on with doing a 3rd of the water a day - as this was a very mature set up before the substrate transfer.

I am wondering if halving the amount of the fish in the tank will help at all?

Thank you,

Paul.

i'm the same with chemicals, but pimafix and melafix are completely natural i believe. Sure you can find the ingredients somewhere on the web.

And yes salt can also be used to help 'perk up' fish if they're a bit poorly and to treat some diseases. If you've removed all scaleless fish (i.e. cory's, plec's, catfish.... not sure if there are others) then your safe to use it.

I'd whack as much mature media into the filter as possible and keep up your water changes.

i dunno about halving the numbers of fish..... i guess if it's cycling then it needs the waste to get the cycle going. Would reducing the waste then slow down the cycle, if it's cycling for longer then surley this would be more harmful to the fish? But then I guess the advise not to feed wouldn't stand as you'd be reducign the waste then too??

sorry not being a right lot of help now am I?!? I have got my fingers crossed for you though

 

[Bex]

Hi PaulEbs

I had a similar problem when I moved a year ago. It was a terrible experience and I think if it ever happens to me again, I'll buy some Bio-Spira to help things along. This is a live bacteria culture that is sold in some lfs. To keep it active it must be kept under refrigeration until it's added to the tank.

There is another product, similar to this one, that is sold in the UK. Perhaps one of the members will know the name of it. Just don't confuse it with products that are supposed to "help" cycle the tank. This is the real thing.

I think the UK version is Tetra Safe Start? Haven't tried it myself so can't comment on it I'm afraid!

 

[PaulEbs]

I've asked at my 2 locals whether they stock a similar item and I didn't have much luck. If I can succesfully cycle the tank without any additives then I would be much happier anyway. Thanks for the recommendation though.

I have placed one of the large filters from the mature coldwater tank into the tropical tank - and today the readings are coming along nicely...

Ammonia - 0 [wahey!]
Nitrite - 0.3
Nitrate - 30/40ppm
ph - 7.5

Miss wiggle - Your right, taking fish out of the tank would probably cause it to build an insufficient amount of beneficial bacteria, so I will hopefully re-cycle the tank with all the fish. And with the readings today I am much hopeful that everything will be okay.


Although today the tank has had an outbreak of algae, 2 types as well! Blue green fluffy stuff on the leaves of some plants [mostly the swords], and green spot on the back wall of the tank.

I'm not sure whether this has anything to do with the tank re-cycling, or the fact I no longer have a plec scraping the glass all day - but the tank has never suffered from any algae problems before.

Thank you for the help,

Paul.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

I've asked at my 2 locals whether they stock a similar item and I didn't have much luck. If I can succesfully cycle the tank without any additives then I would be much happier anyway. Thanks for the recommendation though.

I have placed one of the large filters from the mature coldwater tank into the tropical tank - and today the readings are coming along nicely...

Ammonia - 0 [wahey!]
Nitrite - 0.3
Nitrate - 30/40ppm
ph - 7.5

Miss wiggle - Your right, taking fish out of the tank would probably cause it to build an insufficient amount of beneficial bacteria, so I will hopefully re-cycle the tank with all the fish. And with the readings today I am much hopeful that everything will be okay.


Although today the tank has had an outbreak of algae, 2 types as well! Blue green fluffy stuff on the leaves of some plants [mostly the swords], and green spot on the back wall of the tank.

I'm not sure whether this has anything to do with the tank re-cycling, or the fact I no longer have a plec scraping the glass all day - but the tank has never suffered from any algae problems before.

Thank you for the help,

Paul.

glad it seems to be working out

got my fingers crossed

I do think your meant to get an algae bloom at some point during a cycle aren't you ??

 

[PaulEbs]

Thank you!

I'm not sure - I didn't seem to get algae that bad when I first cycled this tank at the beginning of the year - but come to think of it the blue/green fluffy stuff was around when the tank was first set-up.

Off topic - Are you still going to BP on saturday? Do you know how many people are actually going?

Paul.

 

[Bignose]

i'm not 100% sure but maybe dosing the tank with something like stress coat or melafix just to help them fight off any disease or problems they may pick up

Since there is a mini-cycle, and obviously the goal is to grow more bacteria to consume the ammonia, why, why, why would you recommend adding a mild anti-bacterial like melafix? Natural or not, doesn't this seem very counter productive?

Melafix is not some magic tonic that you can just toss in and make everything right. It has a purpose, and should only be used for that specifi purpose, which is if there is a mild bacterial infection. It is not a cycling product.

That said, the best thing since it seems like the mini-cycle is taking care of itself now, would be water changes. That way the concentration is kept low. And the bacterial colony will continue to grow as long as there is more ammonia produced than the colony can handle. That is, the colony will grow until the ammonia production rate from the fish is the same as the ammonia consumption rate by the bacteria. And, as long as you match the temp, pH, and hardness of the replacement water, you can do as large of a water change as necessary to keep the ammonia and nitrite concentrations down.