Microctenopoma Ansorgii

[piper]

I wonder if any one here can recommend if a pair (or more) of Microctenopoma Ansorgii will be able to live comfortably with my other inhabitants. The tank is 70Gal and medium planted (will be heavily planted once my CO2 is set up). Other roommates are:


2 African Butterfly Fish
8 Parti Pentazona Barbs + 1 Pentazona Barb (five banded barb)
5 Cardinal Tetras
4 Sailfin Mollies 2M 2F
3 Apistogramma (1M 2F)
4 Otocinclus
4 Corydoras Julii

4 Amano Shrimp
2 African Dwarf Frog


Look forward to you comments

 

[nmonks]

I've kept these climbing perch, and they are very nice. But they don't mix especially well with other fish. Have you ever kept Badis badis? They are very similar: slow moving, eat one bloodworm at a time, chew it 40 times, swallow, then go on to the next bloodworm...

African butterflies have the right temperament, but they do eat small fish, so that is slightly risky. Depends a lot on the size difference. Pentazona barbs are pretty docile, so they might work. Cardinals, ottos, and shrimps are perfect. No idea about frogs. Sailfin mollies are not a good choice because the mollies will probably need salt eventually (it's about a 50:50 chance with them), and they definitely will not do well in the soft, acid water you need to breed M. ansorgii.

The almost definite no-no are the cichlids. I find cichlids and climbing perch (of the latter I've kept 4 different species) to be a bad combination. Cichlids are too pushy and territorial. I would simply swap the cichlids for another 3 climbing perch: if you want to see the males at their best, you need them to be displaying. In a 70 gallons tank, you could keep several pairs of M. ansorgii, and they would put on quite a show!

M. ansorgii are nice fish. They are not hardy though, and compared with other Ctenopoma, they aren't especially long lived (2-3 years compared with 12+ for the bigger species). If you can handle Apistogramma, they're very similar in most regards, though a bit more shy. Very pretty though!

Cheers,

Neale

 

[sylvia]

I agree with everything that was said but I think it's not a good idea to try keeping them in your tank unless you are realy prepaired to re-shuffle and re-consider your stocking. The main thing is that they tend to be very picky food-wise and some won't ever take anything other than live foods. Couple this with how slow they eat (the description nmonks gave was perfect ), and they aren't very good at competing with anything fast. The barbs, for example, will get to the food before the ctenopomas even notice it's there. I also doubt shrimp would survive long with them. Despite their small size, they are predators and will eat anything small enough to fit in their mouth - unless we are talking about shrimp that are quite large right now, they'll be lunch.

 

[nmonks]

Hi Sylvia --

I think (know) cardinals are fine with them, as are dwarf golden (gelius) barbs. Pentazonas might be a gamble for the reasons you give. With cardinals, they tend to ignore bloodworms once they hit the ground, which makes them fine companions with fish that pick bloodworms off the ground or from among foliage. I keep cardinals with red-tail dwarf puffers, and they're perfect companions. Surface feeders, like halfbeaks or marble hatchets, would work well for the same reasons. One thing I've notice with these small "micropredators" is that without active dither fish, they're often incredibly shy. The art is picking the right dither fish, so that they reassure the micropredators instead of frighten them!

I haven't tried M. ansorgii with shrimps, but so long as the shrimps are of ~ 2/3 the size of the climbing perch, they should be fine. My Ct. acutirostre wouldn't even eat river shrimps as live food! All they ever wanted was bloodworms. My M. fasciolatus/congicum were a bit more adaptable, but not much.

I think piper should look up Badis badis -- and everything that goes for that species would go for M. ansorgii. In fact, the two would probably get along quite well. Most aquarium books will cover Badis badis, even if they say nothing about M. ansorgii.

Cheers,

Neale

 

[piper]

Thanks for your help in this matter.

The Badis badis (Chameleon fish ) does seem like a better option. But im not sure im ready to rehome my cichlids yet. The male I have doesn't really show any agression towards my other fish but I suspect it would towards a Badis (due to their similarities). My cardials are a bit small at the monment so I might wait 6months for them to grow out a bit rehome my cichlids then get some Badis.

I have had the ABF for 7months now any they have only snacked on my other fish a few times. Got a vid of one of them eating a cardinal that ill post once I work out how to.

 

[piper]

Unfortunatley my male dwarf cichlid died .

I think it was due to the really high temps we have been geeting in th UK.

So as the male cichlid is gone would it be safe to ge some Badis badis in. Or should I still rehome (give away) the females first.

 

[nmonks]

In the UK at the moment it's possible to get quite a variety of Badis species.

Wildwoods, north of London, has Badis blosyrus and B. kanabos. Wholesale tropicals apparently have "Badis bengalensis" (actually Dario dario) and Badis badis. If you do a search at Tropical Fish Finder, you can sometimes save a lot of time by finding places near to you with species of fish you want.

These are easy fish PROVIDED you get the food right. They only eat tiny invertebrates, either live or frozen, and never take flake.

Cheers,

Neale

 

[piper]

Okay all my cichlid have died its really strange I think it must be the heat that the UK has been havnig.

Any way I visited my LFS and they had Microctenopoma Ansorgii in for £5 a pair. I couldn't help my self and bought one pair to see how they fair with my greedy mollies in the tank.

Next question is can I also stock Dario Dario and Badis badis in the same tank as M. Ansorgii. Or will therte be territorial issues. I really am liking this spcies of fish

 

[nmonks]

How big is the tank? 70 gallons?

My guess is there will definitely be a pecking order, but if there are lots of plants, caves, and roots for the fish to mark out their own patches, they should be OK. Just keep an eye on things.

Cheers,

Neale

PS. You will need some dither fish with these types of perch. Hatchetfish are ideal, because they never leave the surface of the tank, so don't pose a threat. The small hatchets might be eaten by butterflyfish, though.

 

[piper]

How big is the tank? 70 gallons?

My guess is there will definitely be a pecking order, but if there are lots of plants, caves, and roots for the fish to mark out their own patches, they should be OK. Just keep an eye on things.

Cheers,

Neale

PS. You will need some dither fish with these types of perch. Hatchetfish are ideal, because they never leave the surface of the tank, so don't pose a threat. The small hatchets might be eaten by butterflyfish, though.

Yes its 70 Gal, well planted lots of slate caves, big pile of bog wood and some coconut shells so plenty of space for hidding.

When you refere to fish as "dither" what are you asking for. Is it a group of slow moving fish to encourage the perch out ?

 

[nmonks]

A quick primer on dither fish:

Bottom dwelling fish, like climbing perch and cichlids, cannot see predators from above the level of the water, like herons or kingfishers. They can't tell if it is safe to come out of their hidey-holes or not. What they do is look for what surface dwelling fish are doing. Surface fish, like hatchets, guppies, or halfbeaks, have extremely good eyesight, and as soon as they see movement or shadows above the water level, they swim away.

So, the cichlid or perch looks out from its cave to see what the surface fish are doing. If those fishes are swimming about happily, then the cichlid or perch knows it is safe to come out and hunt for food or look for a mating partner. If those surface fish are absent, the cichlid or perch stays hidden. If you add some surface dwellers -- dither fish -- to the aquarium, benthic fish tend to swim about in the open much more. Without them, they hide.

Midwater fish, like tetras and barbs, aren't so good for two reasons. One, the cichlid or perch "knows" they cannot see above the waterline, so puts less faith in them. Two, big schools of active midwater fish are actually quite threatening to small bottom dwelling cichlids and perch. What you need are small sufrace dwellers. Hatchets are widely considered the very best of them because they stay close to the top of the tank but pose no threat to any aquarium fish, except perhaps livebearer fry. Marble hatchets would be ideal for your sort of species, M. ansorgii and B. badis; the problem is they are small, and I wouldn't trust them with butterflyfish. The butterfly might actually serve some function as a dither fish, but because it is camouflaged and slow-moving, it isn't likely to send a very good "it's safe" message.

Cheers,

Neale

When you refere to fish as "dither" what are you asking for. Is it a group of slow moving fish to encourage the perch out ?

 

[piper]

Thanks Neale I get the concept now.

The ABFs just site on my spray bar for most of the day so I dought the perch would even thow thet are there. There is no chance of any hatchets living long in my tank, would be lunch before the day is out.

But I might look into guppies they would give a good supply of food and my GF loves them. So some brownie points there.

 

[nmonks]

Consider common hatchets or giant hatchets. Common hatchets (Gasteropelecus sternicla) get to about 6 cm long, and being deep-bodied, would be impossible for a butterfly fish to molest. They are also very lively, hardy (for hatchetfish), and good fun to watch. Mine spend most of the time chasing one another or nipping my fingers at feeding time. I consider common hatchets one of the great secrets of the hobby; I suppose people don't bother because they are plain silver in colour, but if you can get past that, they are very rewarding.

Giant hatchets (Thoracocharax securis) get to a whopping 9 cm long. They aren't commonly traded, but I have seen them in the shops from time to time. Obviously, being almost as big as a butterflyfish, it is another safe choice.

Cheers,

Neale

The ABFs just site on my spray bar for most of the day so I dought the perch would even thow thet are there. There is no chance of any hatchets living long in my tank, would be lunch before the day is out.