Angelfish with one bulging eye - pop eye??

[asifd]

Hi - please help,

My son yesterday evening noticed that our silver angel fish had one eye bulging out. He is usually very healthy, eats well and had no problems in the past. Looking through the other post online, my initial guess is it is pop eye due to injury but comparing it to other photos, i'm not so sure now.

Other fish in tank are: one other angelfish - orange - no fighting between these two - possibly same sex - female
five Stendkar discus - various sizes (2 small, 2 medium, 1 large)
one betta
one zebra danio
5 five banded barbs
2 corydors
4 guppies

temp : 29 C (only just increased last week from 28 C - explanation below)
180L tank, gravel substrate, few ornaments, external cannister filter fluval, LED lights, 3 plants but not growing well. Tank established Jan 2021. Perform 50-60% water change weekly on fridays and clean filters beginning of every month. UV lamp via filter runs 2 hours per day. Last new fish to be added were guppies about 2 months ago.
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 40ppm (my tap water comes out with this much nitrate)
pH 7.6 - 7.8

Fish are fed twice a day with Stendkar brand beefheart and Sera growth granules.

Just last week, I lost one discus and one male orange angelfish. The discus had white pimple like spots on the top of the head near the eyes. Treated with melafix and it went for a few days but returned. Kept treatment ongoing for another week but discus died. Initially thought it may have been an injury or something and the white spot like pimples were like scabs. 100% sure it was not ich because it was localised in one area and the spots were big. This discus also went off his food during this time. Now, I am thinking possibly hexamita. Poop was not stringy but not sure if brown or white in colour.

The male orange angelfish had an injury on its side (this angelfish was always very territorial so frequently in fights). Happened same time as discus getting white spots so treated with melafix. The injury got better but this angelfish was breathing heavily and went off its food. Assumed possibly gill flukes so treated with flubendazole and increased aeration but never recovered and eventually died.

Please help with my silver angelfish. Last night, I added one tablespoon of API salt for every 20 L of water (ie 9 tablespoons for 180L). I am based in the UK so cannot buy antibiotics from LFS but I do have access to human antibiotics if that is only cure.

I have not set up a hospital / QT tank because in the past, I always get an ammonia spike and get forced to move the fish into the main tank. Thank you in advance to all who reply.

 

[Colin_T]

The discus had white pimple like spots on the top of the head near the eyes.

Hole in the head disease caused by Hexamita infecting the fish. This is common in dirty tanks and the high nitrates aren't helping the fish.

Treatment involves cleaning the tank, gravel and filter, and adding some salt. If that doesn't fix it then use Metronidazole.

The injury got better but this angelfish was breathing heavily and went off its food.

Either an internal bacterial or protozoan infection.

I am based in the UK so cannot buy antibiotics from LFS but I do have access to human antibiotics if that is only cure.

Fish anti-biotics are human anti-biotics, but you need to be careful about using any anti-biotics because they cause drug resistant bacteria that kill fish, birds, people, reptiles and animals.

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The silver angelfish with the damaged eye looks like it has suffered a physical injury to the eye. Clean water and tank and a bit of salt should fix it.

Wipe the inside of the glass down with a clean fish sponge. This removes the biofilm on the glass and the biofilm will contain lots of harmful bacteria, fungus, protozoans and various other microscopic life forms.

Do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate every day for 1-2 weeks. The water changes and gravel cleaning will reduce the number of disease organisms in the water and provide a cleaner environment for the fish to recover in. It also removes a lot of the gunk and this means any medication can work on treating the fish instead of being wasted killing the pathogens in the gunk.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it is added to the tank.

Clean the filter if it hasn't been done in the last 2 weeks. Wash the filter materials/ media in a bucket of tank water and re-use them. Tip the bucket of dirty water on the garden/ lawn. Cleaning the filter means less gunk and cleaner water with fewer pathogens.

Increase surface turbulence/ aeration to maximise the dissolved oxygen in the water.

Add some salt, (see directions below).


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SALT
You can add rock salt (often sold as aquarium salt) or swimming pool salt to the aquarium at the dose rate of 1 heaped tablespoon per 20 litres of water. If there is no improvement after 48 hours you can double that dose rate so there is 2 heaped tablespoons of salt per 20 litres.

Keep the salt level like this for at least 2 weeks but no longer than 4 weeks otherwise kidney damage can occur. Kidney damage is more likely to occur in fish from soft water (tetras, Corydoras, angelfish, Bettas & gouramis, loaches) that are exposed to high levels of salt for an extended period of time, and is not an issue with livebearers, rainbowfish or other salt tolerant species.

The salt will not affect the beneficial filter bacteria, fish, plants, shrimp or snails.

After you use salt and the fish have recovered, you do a 10% water change each day for a week using only fresh water that has been dechlorinated. Then do a 20% water change each day for a week. Then you can do bigger water changes after that. This dilutes the salt out of the tank slowly so it doesn't harm the fish.

When you do water changes while using salt, you need to treat the new water with salt before adding it to the tank. This will keep the salt level stable in the tank and minimise stress on the fish.


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You might want to invest in a reverse osmosis unit to get rid of the nitrates in the tap water. You can also try a pozzani filter. You can set up a container with tap water and add a heap of floating plants. Leave the water until the plants have used the nitrates and then use that water for water changes.

Do big regular water changes and gravel cleans to prevent hole in the head disease. I recommend doing a 75% water change and gravel clean once a week. Keep the filter clean too.

 

[asifd]

Thank you for the reply Colin_T.

Last night, I did a 60-70% water change, vacuum clean the gravel with syphon and wipe down the sides of the glass and re-added salt based on new dechlorinated water going in. I will continue doing this for the next week or two before doing 10-20% changes to remove the salt.

Question - Maybe an obvious answer but how can I tell if my angelfish is getting better with regards to 1 tbsp salt / 20L or increase to 2 tbsp / 20 L. The eye still looks the same but now has a white layer of film over the whole eye and the excess white inflamed tissue around the eye is beginning to flake / peel but still bulging out. I couldn't get a picture of the eye but now I have a second problem with this angelfish - It had a fine string of white long poo - is this due to stress or a secondary internal infection? She has also stopped eating. I'm assuming best course of action is maintain the daily water change?

Also, incase it is is hexamita, I read maintaining a higher temperature of 29 - 30 C, especially with discus is a way of controlling it (assuming hexamita are part of the natural gut flora within fish and hence no way to get rid of it). I know some of my smaller fish have a temperature limit of 28 C but again I read this is more due to lower oxygen levels in warmer water and increasing aeration will reduce the stress of the higher temperature.

My main goal right now is to protect my bigger fish because it feels like the grim reaper is visiting my tank!!

Regards to the nitrate levels, my plants never seem to grow well enough and the higher temperature does not help. I am reading more about the pozzani filter but also came across the idea of using a Pothos houseplant growing outside the tank with the stem inside. Anybody with any experience in this who knows if this would work?

Again, Thank you for your replies and REMEMBER, FISH ARE FRIENDS - NOT FOOD!!

 

[Colin_T]

If the angelfish has stopped eating and done a stringy white poop, it has an internal bacterial or protozoan infection. In these situations anti-biotics are generally needed but don't always work if the problem is advanced.

The white over the eye is excess mucous produced by the fish to help protect the damaged area. If the eye is getting better, it usually shows an improvement within a few days. The swelling should go down and the eye should clear up and look normal. If it doesn't, then a broad spectrum fish medication might help, or you might need anti-biotics.

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Hexamita are fine in warm water and do not naturally occur in many fish in the wild. They are parasites that infect and kill fish. Salt and clean water will usually help with minor infections but Metronidazole should be used on more advanced cases. Metronidazole is also used to treat internal protozoan infections and might be an option for the angelfish if you have access to it.

If you do use Metronidazole, remove carbon from filters and treat the entire tank. You will have to google it online to find out how much to use and how often to use it. There are plenty of people on the forum that have used it or look up API General Cure. It contains Praziquantel and Metronidazole and you should be able to get the instructions from that.

You can use salt with Metronidazole.

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Most freshwater tropical fishes can tolerate 30C temperatures for a couple of weeks and will normally be fine as long as there isn't a sudden increase in temperature (eg: from 24 to 30C overnight). if the water is 28C, then pushing it up to 30C overnight will be fine.

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People do use garden plants to help remove nitrates from the aquarium water. Use non toxic plants and let the roots dangle in the water. You can start a thread asking about good plants for removing nitrates and other members will tell you about the plants they use.

 

[asifd]

Hi all,
Carried out a 50% water change last night and wiping down internal glass. Still replacing salt in the new water. Also, started medicating tank with metronidazole based on 1g / 80litres of water. I have access to human metronidazole suspension and tablets - would it be ok to dose using suspension?

Unfortunately, woke up this morning to find my silver angelfish struggling and resting on the gravel against the glass. A few hours later, she passed. Also, the last of my danios ( my original batch of first fish in this tank) has also died. Don’t think the danios death is linked to the current problem - poss the meds, salt and temperature were too much for the little guy.

I will slowly cycle the tank on a daily basis to remove the salt based on 10% daily salt removal. I know i should continue to medicate the tank but this morning, my discus didn’t seem too keen on their food as usual. I’m guessing it is the effects of the antibiotics. Not sure if should continue with metronidazole for 9 more days.

Any advice would be appreciated. Thank you.

 

[asifd]

HELP - just came home and saw the tank was cloudy, tested water parameters - ammonia 0, nitrite about 2.0ppm and nitrate about 20ppm.

Doing immediate water change 100% - water pumped in one end and out the other. Will need to add salt back in without knowing how much water has cycled to prevent big changes of salinity in water.

Any advice to prevent deaths due nitrite - I do not know of anyone with fish tank to borrow their bio media.

Please help.

 

[asifd]

I will clean filter media as well to remove any antibiotic residue to speed up nitrogen cycle - bio media in tank water and sponges in tap water.

 

[asifd]

I have also maxed out the air bubbler to improve oxygenation

 

[Colin_T]

A bit of salt can help with nitrite poisoning so just leave a little bit (1 level tablespoon per 20 litres) in there for a week or until the nitrite settles back down to 0ppm. In the mean time, do big water changes and reduce feeding to reduce ammonia, nitrite and nitrate.

 

[Guest14017]

This is why we do not treat the main tank with antibiotics. The metronidazole you used nuked a bunch of your beneficial bacteria and caused the cycle bump. The ill fish will only get worse in such poor water quality, so she did and she died. Also, as you saw, it'll also take down other fish too such as your Danio. You must, and I mean MUST, use a hospital tank when dosing such meds. I just saw this thread but this should have been reiterated to you.. You can use an ammonia binder such as PRIME and change water every other day, daily or twice daily or whatever is needed depending on buildup of ammonia in the hospital tank.

 

[asifd]

An update -

After three 70% water changes, I finally managed to bring nitrites down 0.25ppm or below. Also ordered API QuickStart from Amazon so hopefully use that from tomorrow evening to speed up nitrogen cycle.

Will check water twice daily and perform large water changes to keep nitrite levels down. Also started to cycle salt out at about 20% per day so by time tank is cycled, salt will be fully out. Will only keep salt level steady if I nitrites keep spiking very high.

To keep bio load down, I have removed my plants from the tank (decaying leaves) and will feed fish pellets only once on alternate days.

Thank you Colin for you help and will be grateful for any other suggestions.

MJfromGA - thank you for your comment - treated whole tank because wanted to rid hexamita completely from all fish because by the time symptoms appear, it’s already too late to save fish. Plus, everywhere I read, says metronidazole is safe for beneficial bacteria - I guess I got unlucky.

 

[Guest14017]

Nope. Metronidazole is NOT safe for beneficial bacteria. At all. I'm unsure why the containers say that but they all do unfortunately.

 

[Bruce Leyland-Jones]

What @Colin_T said, and...
I don't see much by way of plants in the tank. At the very least, throw a load of floating plants in and these should gobble up excess nitrogen products.
Live pants will also break the line of sight between bolshy fish AND provide places for them to hide if necessary.

 

[Colin_T]

This is why we do not treat the main tank with antibiotics.

When treating Hexamita or other fish diseases that have spread through the tank, you treat the entire tank and just monitor water quality. There is no point treating a sick fish in a quarantine tank only to put it back in a contaminated tank where it gets sick again.

If you are going to treat fish in a quarantine tank, you move all the fish into the quarantine tank and treat them. While that is happening, you flush out the disinfect the main tank so the treated fish can go into a clean home.

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The ill fish will only get worse in such poor water quality, so she did and she died.

The angelfish was probably about to die anyway. It stopped eating and did a stringy white poop. This was either an internal bacterial or protozoan infection and both are hard to treat once the fish has stopped eating.

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Also, as you saw, it'll also take down other fish too such as your Danio.

The danio may have been on its last legs anyway. They are a short lived, cool water species and never last long in tropical conditions, especially in water that is warm enough for discus (28-30C).

 

[itiwhetu]

Wow, you are doing well to keep these Discus alive through all of that. Plus, with Barbs and Guppies. Well, done.