Many males of Betta splendens together and being happy within of the same tank??

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TiercelR

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Hello all.
I never have doed this thing before, but in the 80´s years i readed in a book which is specialized in Betta fishes in the aquarium (sorry i do not remember now nor its title nor its author) about of the use of a kind of medicament that, when it is diluted in the water (under the controlled administration of it), then can be mixed together many males of Betta splendens permanently within of the same tank and without none fights at all !!
Have you tried something as this? I will be happy for to hear your experiences in this theme! Thanks!
 

gwand

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Hello all.
I never have doed this thing before, but in the 80´s years i readed in a book which is specialized in Betta fishes in the aquarium (sorry i do not remember now nor its title nor its author) about of the use of a kind of medicament that, when it is diluted in the water (under the controlled administration of it), then can be mixed together many males of Betta splendens permanently within of the same tank and without none fights at all !!
Have you tried something as this? I will be happy for to hear your experiences in this theme! Thanks!
I’m a retired neuroendocrinologist and remember a paper from 2022 published in Behavioral Processes that showed the neuropeptide hormone oxytocin reduced aggressive behavior in male bettas. In the lay literature oxytocin is referred to as the love hormone. It facilitates social bonding.
 

Sgooosh

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I’m a retired neuroendocrinologist and remember a paper from 2022 published in Behavioral Processes that showed the neuropeptide hormone oxytocin reduced aggressive behavior in male bettas. In the lay literature oxytocin is referred to as the love hormone. It facilitates social bonding.
that's very interesting!
i would still be cautious about keeping them together, as i think you have to be very precise with the chemicals and such.

Hello all.
I never have doed this thing before, but in the 80´s years i readed in a book which is specialized in Betta fishes in the aquarium (sorry i do not remember now nor its title nor its author) about of the use of a kind of medicament that, when it is diluted in the water (under the controlled administration of it), then can be mixed together many males of Betta splendens permanently within of the same tank and without none fights at all !!
Have you tried something as this? I will be happy for to hear your experiences in this theme! Thanks!
 

GaryE

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To dream the impossible dream....
A tank of sedated bettas, going on for years and years - are you sure that's what you would want? It sounds like a nightmare scenario to me - a half life for no other reason but human whims.
Plus it might be hard to maintain.

However, if you get one pair of Bettas, you can breed them. Raise the fry away from the parents in a large tank, and remove the females as soon as you can. Once you have reduced to population to about one male per 25cm square on the surface area (large low tanks work) they will find a zone. Finnage will be damaged in border disputes, but with floating plants, the males will defend their stations and no one should get killed. If you can start with a less aggressive plakat group, you won't even have shredded fins.

I have had similar, small scale set ups with wild caught Betta splendens, or fry from them to be more precise. It really needs a tank with a large surface area. I also bred plakats and gave the young to a friend who had built himself a shallow tank the size of a dining room table, which he placed under a window so he could grow Pistia all over the surface. He had a great time with the tank. It was a very unorthodox looking thing, but was a very unorthodox project to begin with. He replaced a colony of long fins with my pla-kat because he wanted a more natural set up, but he said as long as you never added another fish, it worked. If a fish died, the territories of neighbours expanded. But he felt that familiarity from a very young age allowed the balance, and any change meant another territorial squabble with resulting injuries. hefelt that if you bought a bunch of Bettas and put them together in the tank, deaths would result.

I watched the tank a couple of times and it was too static for me. Each male just hovered in his territory, looking up for bugs. The guy fed them fruit flies so there would be no rush to food (and no reset on territory). He sprinkled them on the surface carefully. The Bettas only moved in narrow areas, and not much.

He was a very OCD kind of guy, in the entire house as well as in his aquarium choices, and I'm not sure how many people would want that set up.
 

Byron

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I will cut to the chase here...adding oxytocin pr whatever substance to the water in which fish live is going to impact the fish negatively. Once you know how fish actually "live" in water, you can more easily see why adding any substance is problematic and even downright lethal. Only what is needed to help the fish (conditioner for example, or medication for a specific issue) is safe. This is frankly inhumane.
 

gwand

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I will cut to the chase here...adding oxytocin pr whatever substance to the water in which fish live is going to impact the fish negatively. Once you know how fish actually "live" in water, you can more easily see why adding any substance is problematic and even downright lethal. Only what is needed to help the fish (conditioner for example, or medication for a specific issue) is safe. This is frankly inhumane.
I was not advocating this. Just pointing out it’s been done. I agree it is inhumane for Bettas. I would never give it to my betta. However in humans oxytocin seems to help in autism and other neuropsychiatric disorders.
 

TwoTankAmin

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Hey- How much money can the drug dealer to the Bettas make?

Given enough of the right drugs you can get the lion to lay down with the lamb.

You will love this one......

Gonzalez, S.C., Matsudo, V.K.R. and Carlini, E.A., 1971. Effects of marihuana compounds on the fighting behavior of Siamese fighting fish (Betta splendens). Pharmacology, 6(3), pp.186-190.

Abstract​

The effects of marihuana extract and Δ9-tetrahydro-cannabinol on the spontaneous aggressive behavior of the male adult Siamese fighting fish (Betta splendens) were studied. The drugs were strong suppressors of the aggressive behavior; however, after 8–10 exposures the fishes developed tolerance to the drugs. Continuing the treatment up to 31 days did not induce any further modification in the behavior of the fishes.

What I want to know is how they got the fish to smoke the pot?
 

AdoraBelle Dearheart

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To dream the impossible dream....

I have had similar, small scale set ups with wild caught Betta splendens, or fry from them to be more precise. It really needs a tank with a large surface area. I also bred plakats and gave the young to a friend who had built himself a shallow tank the size of a dining room table, which he placed under a window so he could grow Pistia all over the surface. He had a great time with the tank. It was a very unorthodox looking thing, but was a very unorthodox project to begin with. He replaced a colony of long fins with my pla-kat because he wanted a more natural set up, but he said as long as you never added another fish, it worked. If a fish died, the territories of neighbours expanded. But he felt that familiarity from a very young age allowed the balance, and any change meant another territorial squabble with resulting injuries. hefelt that if you bought a bunch of Bettas and put them together in the tank, deaths would result.

I watched the tank a couple of times and it was too static for me. Each male just hovered in his territory, looking up for bugs. The guy fed them fruit flies so there would be no rush to food (and no reset on territory). He sprinkled them on the surface carefully. The Bettas only moved in narrow areas, and not much.

He was a very OCD kind of guy, in the entire house as well as in his aquarium choices, and I'm not sure how many people would want that set up.

I agree that not many would want that sort of set up, but I do see the appeal! It must have made a great talking point, and it's certainly keeping them in a manner that more closely mimics their natural habitat, and you both seemed to learn a great deal from it.
You should collect these stories and experiences together, on a blog or even a google drive doc perhaps. I really would love to read more about fish you've kept and other set ups like this you've seen!
However in humans oxytocin seems to help in autism and other neuropsychiatric disorders.

I hadn't heard about this, that's interesting! What are some other neuropsychiatric disorders it might help? Is there a hypothesis for why oxytocin seems to help in autism? I'm wondering whether the increased bonding helps with mirror neurons, or empathy? Or maybe more interest in interacting with other people, and increasing social skills as a result?
The effects of marihuana extract and Δ9-tetrahydro-cannabinol on the spontaneous aggressive behavior of the male adult Siamese fighting fish (Betta splendens) were studied. The drugs were strong suppressors of the aggressive behavior; however, after 8–10 exposures the fishes developed tolerance to the drugs. Continuing the treatment up to 31 days did not induce any further modification in the behavior of the fishes.

What I want to know is how they got the fish to smoke the pot?

It's pretty hilarious to imagine a bunch of stoned bettas just hanging out and chilling, doing some fish version of getting the giggles
 

gwand

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I agree that not many would want that sort of set up, but I do see the appeal! It must have made a great talking point, and it's certainly keeping them in a manner that more closely mimics their natural habitat, and you both seemed to learn a great deal from it.
You should collect these stories and experiences together, on a blog or even a google drive doc perhaps. I really would love to read more about fish you've kept and other set ups like this you've seen!


I hadn't heard about this, that's interesting! What are some other neuropsychiatric disorders it might help? Is there a hypothesis for why oxytocin seems to help in autism? I'm wondering whether the increased bonding helps with mirror neurons, or empathy? Or maybe more interest in interacting with other people, and increasing social skills as a result?


It's pretty hilarious to imagine a bunch of stoned bettas just hanging out and chilling, doing some fish version of getting the giggles
oxytocin (OT) is a facilitator of social interactions such as parental and pair bonding, trust, and empathy. The many results supporting a pro-social role of OT have generated the hypothesis that impairments in the endogenous OT system may lead to antisocial behavior, most notably social withdrawal or pathological aggression. OT also has anxiolytic effects. The exact neural circuits that underlie OT action are unknown.
 

Colin_T

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Abstract​

The effects of marihuana extract and Δ9-tetrahydro-cannabinol on the spontaneous aggressive behavior of the male adult Siamese fighting fish (Betta splendens) were studied. The drugs were strong suppressors of the aggressive behavior; however, after 8–10 exposures the fishes developed tolerance to the drugs. Continuing the treatment up to 31 days did not induce any further modification in the behavior of the fishes.

What I want to know is how they got the fish to smoke the pot?
They have an air pump in the room and it pumps air into the tank. They get someone to smoke the weed and blow the smoke towards the air pump. the pump sucks the smoke in and pumps it into the water. They do the same thing for making smoke water to treat Australian native plant seeds so they germinate.

You could probably blow smoke under a coverglass of an aquarium and the smoke would eventually settle on the water or the fish breath it in when taking air from the surface.
 

GaryE

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They have an air pump in the room and it pumps air into the tank. They get someone to smoke the weed and blow the smoke towards the air pump. the pump sucks the smoke in and pumps it into the water. They do the same thing for making smoke water to treat Australian native plant seeds so they germinate.

You could probably blow smoke under a coverglass of an aquarium and the smoke would eventually settle on the water or the fish breath it in when taking air from the surface.
While doing this, the music of old hippy bands like Country Joe and the Fish can be played. Blue Oyster Cult music can also set the mood in a reefer aquarium like this.

Or you could chalk it up as a curiosity and move on....
 

TwoTankAmin

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OK all you Bettas here we go


I took two physicals for the Army and got deferred twice in the 1960s. Then they instituted the draft lottery and I got a pretty high number.

edited ti fix lottery
 
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sharkweek178

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I once met a guy who would travel to Nepal to take photos of tigers in the wild. One of the most interesting conversations I ever had.
We were talking about tigers and I mentioned that temple with the tigers you could pet or sit with. His disgust was visible. They tried to make it out to be some mystical experience but they were really heavily sedating the tigers. I was with him in his disgust. As you can imagine, sedating an animal every day isn't exactly good for its health.
There's something wrong with chemically altering an animal for basically our own amusement. Especially when it's bad for the animal's health.
 

xxEMOxLIZZARDxx

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They have an air pump in the room and it pumps air into the tank. They get someone to smoke the weed and blow the smoke towards the air pump. the pump sucks the smoke in and pumps it into the water. They do the same thing for making smoke water to treat Australian native plant seeds so they germinate.

You could probably blow smoke under a coverglass of an aquarium and the smoke would eventually settle on the water or the fish breath it in when taking air from the surface.
I'm just thinking about how chill my fish must be at this point.

Not saying much more as don't remember rules for that in forum.
 
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