Man, I'm Pissed . . .

[tear-scar]

Did you guys, in high school, ever have that a biom project where you have plants and animals in a small aquarium (like a large bottle) and see if you can choose them well enough to have the animals and plants survive for a certain period?

Well, my sister's doing one now-- the goal is to have them live for 4 months.

Well, the bottles get sealed at the start of the experiment so no water changes-- and they get 20 hours a day of med-low lighting.

So, my sister calls me (I'm at college) and asks me for advice. Well, anyone would realize it's not optimal conditions. But I just told her that she should use java moss, and not fast-growers because there is very limited CO2, and that she should use small algae eating inverts like snails and/or feeder caridina shrimp, and that she should grab some of the substrate from my shrimp tank at home to help her bacteria colonies along.

Apparently, all my sister got was to use java moss. SHE DOESN'T LISTEN!!!

She said she was "too grossed out" to take substrate from my tank, and she let someone else pick the animals!!

Oh, and it's bad, you know it'd be bad . . .

her friend got them 4 clown plecos . . . and one of 'em died before they even started . . .

3 CLOWN PLECOS!?? IN A COCA COLA BOTTLE!!?? WITHOUT WOOD TOO!!?

When I told my sister how ridiculous that was, she said that they'd already bought the fish and that was that . . . OMG . . . she didn't want to argue with her friend . . .

If I'm mad at my sister and her friend, I'm infinitely more mad at the pet store owner, who apparently said that "this is a good fish to use, because it eats algae!"
I swear when I go back home I'm going to find out which store that was and knock some sense into them . . .


So, any takers on guessing how long it'd be before a trio of clown plecos croak in a 1g container with no water changes, no established bacteria colonies, and no wood?
__________________

 

[Clairel]

OMG!!! What are the teachers thinking of?? Cant you put a complaint in??

They need water changes, and food etc...

I think this is cruelty, especially how the essay, is to see if it will live past 20 days, this is disgusting, so in other words, they think the fish are disposable, and dont care even if they do die??

C x

 

[dwarfgourami]

If I were you I would definitely contact the school or get your parents to do it.

A strong letter to the headteacher is indicated here, pointing out the dangers of accustoming young people to cruelty, the potential illegality of illtreating fish and the bad press that could result were this to get publicly known. Point out that they, as a school, have a responsibility to provide people like your sister with the proper supervision and guidance during projects undertaken as part of school work. There is no way this can conceivably include letting her shut up 3 plecos in a CocaCola bottle. It may well be that the school is not aware of the cackhanded way she and her friend are interpreting their instructions, but it is theschool's duty to keep control of her high school work and give her PROPER INSTRUCTIONS. Not everybody is going to have an elder brother who is an expert fishkeeper.

Can you not get your parents to FORBID your sister to carry on with this experiment? Be sympathetic to them, they are (indirectly) being badly treated by the school which is encouraging their child to engage in totally unsuitable activities. Speaking as a parent, I would be go absolutely spare if I found one of my children doing anything similar.

 

[tear-scar]

Clairel-- well, actually, it's 4 months, not 20 days. 20 hours is the number of hours of light per/day they get.

Um, well . . . I posted this because I was angry and upset with my sister and people do stupid things when they're angry but . . . well, I never thought of it as that serious beyond just my sister's experiment.


I mean, yeah it does treat the animals as if they are disposable, but I mean it's similar in principle to preparing frogs for disection, right? That's still a common practice I believe (though at my old high school they tend to favor super market squid over frogs).


Though, granted the frogs are gassed once, and not poisoned, suffocated, and starved over 4 months like the fish would be . . .


But I'm mad at my sister because hers' is an unusual case-- most of the groups are using SNAILS I believe-- like the pond snails so many of us have come to hate. We all know they can live through like, anything.

My cousin Andrew (who DOES listen to me) has planned a nice brackish set up with Opae 'Ula shrimp (who could survive in a container half the size for twice the time easily, though I hate the little torture chambers they ususally sell them in-- self-containing my @ss) and Marimo Moss balls (that can also live through anything). Opae Ula can even eat moss ball if needed, since it's an algae . . . He even bought ocean salt from the pet store like I told him to. Good boy.


Ok, to be fair, it is a plant/animal experiment, and plants do consume nitrates, so it is possible for a small set up with snails/small shrimp and moss to maintain some-what ok levels of nitrate and enough algae to feed the snails/shrimp for an extended time . . .


I just really don't think my sister could have found a WORSE fish than the Clown Pleco . . . ok, maybe it's possible . . . well, not really . . .

I mean, 60% of their diet is wood, they produce huge amounts of waste (more than any planted tank would really use), they eventually grow to be 4-6 inches long, and they get stressed out without caves-- it doesn't get much worse than that!

but . . . as flawed as the experiment is, it does give the kids the basic ideas, and they really don't have the time or energy to spend on a serious planted tank set up . . .

 

[bettas]

thats terrible

 

[black angel]

Ive read about these experiments on other sites and obviously other schools. The teachers in some of them pick the fish they have to use and a favourite is the betta. The teacher insisting it can eat the roots of any plant put in, seriously it shows the ignorance of people.
Luckily when people post asking for a suitable inmate then we try to get them to put a snail in or a small shrimp as said above, but its cruelty whatever way you look at it and just wouldnt be allowed to happen in this country. Or at least i would hope not. If ever my own daughter came back with this request i would be on the phone to the school refusing to do it.

 

[prankster705]

Oh man, oops I mean oh sister, can't people listen, she was to grossed out to pick some substrate??!! 3 clown plecos!!?? That's a dissaster, why can't people listen!!?? She's probably gona get an F, instead of an A.

 

[dwarfgourami]

Um, well . . . I posted this because I was angry and upset with my sister and people do stupid things when they're angry but . . . well, I never thought of it as that serious beyond just my sister's experiment.


I mean, yeah it does treat the animals as if they are disposable, but I mean it's similar in principle to preparing frogs for disection, right? That's still a common practice I believe (though at my old high school they tend to favor super market squid over frogs).


Though, granted the frogs are gassed once, and not poisoned, suffocated, and starved over 4 months like the fish would be . . .

But I'm mad at my sister because hers' is an unusual case-- most of the groups are using SNAILS I believe-- like the pond snails so many of us have come to hate. We all know they can live through like, anything.

Actually no, I don't think it's on a par with dissecting frogs. The frogs are killed before dissection and arguably something useful could be learnt from studying the anatomy of a frog. The fish would be dying in agony, eaten up by ammonia over a period of many hours, probably days. That is sheer cruelty. And there is nothing at all to be learnt from the experiment (except of course that she should listen to big brother next time). Sometimes we may need to kill animals for our own benefit (though personally I think we could live without most of us ever dissecting a frog); we do not need to treat them cruelly while they are still alive. This is a fairly well recognised principle at least in the western world. Or why do you think the RSCA inspect farms? The cows are going to die anyway, right? Still doesn't mean it is irrelevant HOW they die.

 

[consp]

Maybe you could call up the school anonomsly (To avoid embarressing your sister ) and express how disgusted you are tht the school encourages its pupils to act cruelly to living creatures. Tell them that the school is helping to raise the next batch of people that kick their dogs or neglect their cats (People seem to be more concerned when you mention fluffy creatures). Tel them why it is bad and why they shouldn't be doing it and let them know exactly why it is so cruel.

Go on to tell them that if they don't pull the plug on the project and find all the critters involved suitable homes... you will contact animal welfare organisations and get the media involved (No school wants bad publicity and local papers are desperate for stories it seems). If they refuse to stop the project contact your local animal welfare organisations and then call your local paper.

If the school refuses to listen to you they'll be bound to listen to the hatefuelled comments of animal activists and the press trying to make the school sounds like a really dismal place